Grayling defending smacking

[seventiesgirl]

Never did him any harm apparently. The tory party are such a bunch of tossers. Whatever next?

[greyvix]

I smacked DD1 a couple of times when I was still working out what good parenting was; I was brought up by parents who smacked. I have never smacked the other 3, and I am ashamed of my earlier actions. All 4 DCs, now adults, were brought up to know boundaries and to understand the difference between right and wrong. DD1 still remembers being smacked, though cannot remember what caused it. I also remember my shame, and the fact that it was my own loss of control.
If you are teaching your DCs that violence is wrong, what message are you giving them by hitting them? It is also ineffective. If it worked, you would only ever have to do it once.

[PolkadotCircus]

Sadly she couldn't have a nap as she had a shed load of homework to do and sorry being rude when I picked her up and vile on the waaaay home to her brother merited far more than a nap.She's 8 not 2.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

I'm not convinced this is a Tory issue,didnt a labor chap make some stupid comment about lack of smacking causing the riots the other year?

Either way its a shit way to disapline,but I have noticed on the many to smack or not threads that most people don't appear to get the differences between disapline and punishment.

I'm very much against smacking and rather confused about the phrase reasonable physical chastisement mainly because everybody who hits there kids describes it as reasonable even when it clearly isant when it ceases to be reasonable chastisement it becomes child abuse, I'm not sure I have ever come across a child abuser who actually admits they are.

But that aside,my kids are fairly well behaved in all settings my adult children did well at school live independently have good jobs,my younger children do well at school know how to nbehave in most settings and have never experanced other adults do the raised eyebrow thing that happens when your kids are being demons and your sat there oblivious to your angels. Yet they have never been smacked,I also don't use stuff that most people would describe as punishment routinely.

We distract and educate as to what behaviour I expect on a day to day basis politely reminding what the expectations are when required and it works for us its a very effective alternative from smacking and shouting.

[cory]

The argument that there is no alternative seems a bit strange to me, having grown up in a country where smacking was already frowned on in the 60s and later became illegal.

I was never smacked, my parents were not smacked either, not even sure my grandmother was smacked and she was born in the 19th century. My nieces and nephews have not been smacked and my greatnephew is not smacked. We haven't turned out any delinquents so far.

I and my contemporaries didn't feel that there were no boundaries or that our parents were incapable of disciplining us; as I remember it, we had a great deal of respect for adults, and the same seems to apply to the younger generation. I don't think my parents or grandparents sat around waiting for somebody else to put alternative discipline in place: they used their own initiative.

[RhinestoneCowgirl]

I wasn't smacked as a child so I don't want to smack mine (6 & 4 yrs). One of the things I'm trying to teach them is not to hit (particularly each other) and I don't see how hitting them would help.

[Abra1d]

OP, do you really believe that nobody in the Labour party has ever smacked a child?

[duchesse]

Polka, she will always come back from sleepovers exhausted. They don't actually do any sleeping at them. I would be amazed if your DD had more than a couple of hours actual sleep. Let's just say it's best not to programme an afternoon of homework after one until they're oo...16 and can manage their own timetables.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

I'm gobsmacked that a parent on this thread actually needs the government to tell her how to disapline her child

[Thingiebob]

Anyone who says they've never smacked is a liar

Eh?

I've never smacked my three year old. I think hitting is crap. I was hit as a child and yes I do remember it vividly.

And I know a lot of middle class families that hit their children so think Xenia's suggestion that it is a lower class punishment is crud.

[MummytoMog]

When I saw the title, I thought you meant A C Grayling. I'm disappointed. I was looking for an intelligent discussion of corporal punishment. Oh well. I'll go do the ironing instead.

[catgirl1976]

DS isn't old enough for this to be an issue for me

I'd like to think I won't smack, but I don't think I can rule out the fact there are situations where it could happen

I was very occasionally smacked and I can honestly say it hasn't harmed me or my relationship with my DM (My dad never smacked me. He did smack DSis once, when as a teen she called my mother a "fucking bitch, but that's the only time he's ever raised his hand to any of us)

[SolidGoldBrass]

I think verbal abuse can be a lot more damaging than a slap on the hand or leg. Telling DC that you wish they'd never been born, or that they are worthless/stupid/horrible or that you hate them - that's going to hurt and linger far more than a slap, yet some people get hysterically paranoid about hitting when it's not necessarily a very big deal.

[ClimbingPenguin]

I honestly can't work out a situation that I think will warrant me smacking my child. Just where it does it come into your thought process?

Incidentally I was smacked as child (my brothers at time horribly so).

It's a tool of anger, of the smacker lashing out. That part I understand, not the 'discipline' angle. If DD is doing something I don't want her to, repeatably, I take it as cue to look at what I'm doing wrong, not blame it all on her. I admit she is only 3.

[PolkadotCircus]

Duchesses didn't programme needs must and the vileness started the minute she was picked up-totally unacceptable.If she can't go without being rude she's not going.

The fact is parenting is hard and we aren't all born with the patience of a saint akin to Mother Teresa.Effective parenting takes skill and teaching.The fact is many haven't been taught and prefer to take the easy route which results in the behaviour problems you see in schools.

[PolkadotCircus]

And what Solid said-even shouting that isn't abusive,is it better?Not so sure myself.

[ItsOkayItsJustMyBreath]

I have NEVER smacked ds. How do you think teachers and T.A.s manage at schools; they are not allowed to touch children and somehow they can instill discipline (of course some teachers don't do this but the majority do).

[XBenedict]

Why is anyone who says they have never smacked a liar? I have 3 children and I have NEVER smacked, tapped, hit whatever you want to call it any of them.

[ConstantCraving]

I find the assumption that if you don't smack you must use verbal abuse bizarre. Both are wrong surely - would you not just treat your children as human beings - i.e. NO abuse - not verbal, physical, psychological or emotional.

[Xenia]

I am very very anti smacking. It i9s not an excuse to say verbal abuse is worse. You could apply the same argument in those times in UK history and those countries currently on the planets where husbands have a legal right physically discipline a wife,. Just change your language to apply the word woman for child and the smackers will see the true evil of their thought and deed.

Either they do it when they lose their temper and wish they had not in which case clearly they must be wrong or they do it later as some kid of calm thought that to exert physical force on a child is acceptable.

Let us be very very clear - it is very often illegal in the UK to smack a child. If any mark is left you break the law and mother mumsnetters may well report you and hopefully your children will. If no mark is left it won't have worked as it won';t be hard enough to cause pain. If you have devised a method or tool to cause the child pain without leaving a mark then you need psychiatric help.

[Cat98]

At best, it's ineffective. At worst, it's damaging.
It is possible to parent without smacking. How can you discipline using hitting, but teach a child it is wrong to hit? You can't. Ultimately, they will copy you.

[Cat98]

SGB - the examples you use are awful too. I wouldn't say any of those things to ds.

[Cat98]

I don't think it's especially a tory issue, though?

[pointythings]

Frankly - they get 'consequences' for bad behaviours naturally without you needing to stoop to hitting - so long as you police the boundaries of what is acceptable.

This.

I'm sorry, but it's perfectly possible to set boundaries and consequences for a lively toddler without resorting to smacking. Put fragile/dangerous things out of reach - if that means having a barrier across the kitchen door, so be it. If that means putting certain things in storage for a few years, so be it. If that means taking the time to minimise the opportunities for bad behaviour (by planning snacks/naps to avoid the fatigue/hunger which often triggers behaviours) so be it. If it means repeating the lesson over and over - because that is often necessary with toddlers - so be it.

It's also about picking your battles - does it really matter what insane outfit your toddler goes to nursery in, as long as it's appropriate to the weather?

It's perfectly possible to raise disciplined, well-behaved children without smacking. It's just the harder route to take. And frankly I don't care if you smacking advocates are offended by this last.

[Snowkey]

Smacking is crap, lazy, out of control parenting.

[MrsOakenshield]

but it isn't an either / or between verbal abuse and hitting, is it? Both are equally bad. I don't hit but I don't say dreadful things to DD either, though I can shout and I hate it and always apologise and talk to DD about it. Her behaviour has got pretty challenging in the last couple of weeks and I need to work on how best to deal with it, but hitting and verbal abuse are not on the list.

I agree that it can't help setting children up for the wider world where hitting as a form of discipline or punishment will never be on the agenda.