A and E database

[ZebraInHiding]

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/27/every-child-accident-emergency-dabatase

I thought they did this anyway? Don't they senda note to your health visitor?

Do you agree with it or do you think it will make people worry more? Whilst I can see the good in it, I worry that kids just won't get taken for help any more. Not sure what the solution is though. :(

Simon Heffer is an idiot. Not seeking medical help for your child is a form of child abuse.

it's neglect, surely

Neglect is a form of child abuse

yes, but they tend to be separated out. Anyway, we are splitting hairs :o

You don't think perhaps he's just trying to sell newspapers and doesnt mean a word of it ?

true. With some very irresponsible scaremongering thrown in.

it doesn't really matter about his motives or whether he means it. He's lending weight to the "child snatching social worker" myths that fly around.

With reference to the poster who said that a doctor might be able to tell that a spiral fracture of a femur is NAI but find it harder to classify a ' clean fracture of the tibia ' as such, the doctor involved takes note of the history of the trauma recounted by the parent/caregiver, notes any inconsistencies or details that don't ring true, and considers them in conjunction with any imaging. They can also consult a radiologist for advice.

I work in a DGH, am involved in NAI cases and have seen more of these over the past few years than you would think possible - not all of these children make the news. It must be utterly nightmarish to be falsely accused, I absolutely do not diminish that but equally I want to ensure that any child I deal with is safe.

It is typical of the culture today that we are so reluctant to "judge" that we cannot target families obviously struggling. So, instead, we get a computer database which will be purely factual, based on number of attendances, injuries etc. Amazing seeing the thread above how many well educated parents are asked "hard" questions (i.e virtually accused of child abuse) and are expected to suck it up and think it is marvelous as it will help to catch real abusers.

I do not for a minute believe there is less child abuse in 2012 than in the 70s, when I was a child. All the technologly does is create a blunt instrument, which is then interpreted by people who prefer to target the middle classes, as they will actually take the trouble to respond to enquiries and turn up to appointments. It is the same as customs patting down our 18 month old child for explosives when, to the best of my knowledge, there has NEVER been a white couple with children hijacking an aircraft. Of course there are well educated middle class abusers but it is a statistical game and targeting will reduce abuse far more than databases.

Your customs comment is not really an apt parallel, Larry.

Struggling families are targetted, though the quality of the support they get can be lamentable. This proposal is designed to do precisely what you say is not done i.e. ensure that where appropriate, protective measures are taken as early as possible.

And re 'sucking it up', exactly what is wrong with me being asked hard questions when I attend A&E when my child has suffered a substantial injury? Did you not read the post from the woman who said she was abused as a child but because she came from a nice family, no-one did anything?

What is wrong with it?

I think that normal people pay taxes for the NHS and expect help when their child is injured. You are scared and miserable at that point. Most people want sympathy and treatment, not the Spanish inquisition.

Your attitude demonstrates the idea that it is fine to treat anyone with a sick or injured child as a criminal suspect. Wrong on so many levels.

How are these struggling families likely to be identified if questions are not asked larry? Families who need help are often unidentified untill they come into contact with Heath care, education, housing, etc. indiscriminate approaches to safeguarding is necessary other wise people do slip through the net. What makes me less or more worthy of being asked questions about my children's welfare than anyone else from any class, culture or walk of life. I don't really understand your post. Are you saying middle class and or innocent parents should not be questioned in order to identify abuse or neglect? If so how do you make the assessment of whats a safe parent without asking questions.

larry I would rather that every parent was questioned and held acountable if it meant that victims would be identified sooner and did not die as a result of abuse.
i think every professional involved in looking after children should never err on the side of caution if it can save lives.
It takes a village to raise a child after all.

Of course Simon Heffer is just writing crap to sell the Mail. I am under no illusions about what kind of 'newspaper' that is. But the worry is that other people might read it and think, well, if a clever big journalist thinks that, maybe I should also.

If you take a small child to hospital with a fractured skull and that child is too small to tell you what happened, what are you suggesting the hospital do? Just smile and say dearie me?

Of course it is stressful and horrible if your child is injured. Of course the hospital staff should not just assume you abused your child but they have to try to find out what happened. Small children don't just fracture their skulls as a matter of course.

ok, you are not questioned for five minutes, bye.

You live months of uncertainty, there is an initial assessment, a meeting you may or may not be invited to, GP spoken to etc, or if you are very unlucky care proceedings in court which can go on over a year and include you and your children attending psychiatric evaluations.

But het fuck it lets abuse innocent families with our fingers in our ears and pretend it is five minutes out of their life!

You have no idea.

You are talking about a specific experience, not the experience of every person who has ever presented at a&e. mistakes happen yes at either end of the spectrum. no one can comment on this thread wether involvement with your family was justified or not. But does that mean that the system should not attempt to tackle these mistakes and seek ways to improve. I'm not even sure I think what is proposed is the answer I think the answer is related more to professional education, which would prevent more mistakes. But I do think questions should be asked when it comes to children's welfare regardless of who you are.

The latter part of September to early December I was in a state of terror, visited twice by ss, had a meeting with school and ss, phone calls, back and forth to GP, humiliated in front of GP receptonist, bullied and spoken to like garbage by school receptionists knowing who will attend meetings, publically humiliated as some of the staff knew me and my kids from juniour school. For fuck all, for people who are ignorant of our conditiin, kept shite records, lost medical info and are disablist.

Suck it up eh!

No one is saying suck it up.

I am very worried about this as the above wasn't A&E, what happened at A&E recently was two Dr's the initial one asked the consultant to help due to rare condition, he said it was a pulled muscle, it wasn't as the expert in the condition said it was dislocated ribs. I have little faith in the "system or professionals" and I fear innocent people and children being needlessly hurt.

"for people who are ignorant of our conditiin, kept shite records, lost medical records"

I'm not trying to irritate you, but if the problem you suffered was because no-one knew why you were seeking medical assistance for your child, isn't a joined-up records system which explained the condition to anyone you came into contact with exactly what you needed?

Then do you not think better professional sharing of information and consultation regarding judgments being made may possibly seen your situation handled differently?

I think the problem for us has been the fact it is a complicated rare condition. I am very upset, not upset at you.

I am not sure about joined up records helping at all.

The GP had records, it was school that messed up record keeping.

The A&E dept was the same hospital that diagnosed the latest stuff, so they had it on their records there, the dickhead consultant was incompetant at treating my child and was too arrogant to call for backup as he was out of his depth. I will be getting a report with the error he made noted in it and be complaining about him in due course to his employers.

What worries me is this condition is underdiagnosed and with dislocations, bruising, anxiety, gi like incontenance etc symptoms it can look like abuse by a parent and we had a diagnosis.

I went through hell before as a rhumatologist was ignorant of the fatigue part of the condition which was available to him at the time, made me look a liar.

Fed up in general of being bullied for this in me and my kids. I worry for others.

My twin son blacked both his eyes all by himself bouncing from one door jamb to the other. Would have been mortified if his name was on this database and the parents under suspicion............

MrsJREwing - please PM me through mumsnet. I'd like to give you information about the treatment of mitochondrial functional diseases. It sounds like your condition may be related and there are some very effective solutions with no side effects that may be worth trying. My ds has had a miraculous (or would be if I believed in God) recovery now that he's been diagnosed and treated.

I completely empathize with your terrible experience with medical and educational professionals and staff.

Mrs Ewing

I find carrying a letter with dx on it very handy for A&E or if out of area . Especially as ds3 has extra complications and rare form and were pretty frequent flyers to A&E

But yes it's scary amount times I have had to explain a gentic condition ti people even pulling it up in my phone to show them