More women staying at home because they want to spend time with the kids - is this the reason?

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
Am wrting in the Standard tomorrow about latest research suggesting stay at home mums are increasingly not returning to work because they want to spend more time with their children. Now Patricia Hewitt has said that Mothers who stayed at home had been under-valued for too long by the Goverment. What do you think - in an ideal world would you stay at home full time? Do you feel strongly about raising your kids yourself? If money were no object would you jack in the job and what, if anything, would make returning to work more attractive?
Have to say now I've chalked up four the thought of being a full-time mum is pretty terrifying (call in the professionals I say )

belleofball well said! I know someone who's a month off giving birth, she has already "booked" her mum to babysit new years eve! Shocking IMHO.

IMO some people also feel the need to have children to "tick the boxes".

SHHH, here,here.
I'm sick of people asking me when am i going back to work, and feeling guilty for wanting to be a SAHM.
I had kids because i want to bring them up, watch them grow,enjoy them. Not let other people have that pleasure.
I am fully aware that some people need to work,and am so glad i'm lucky enough to be able not to. I hate hearing people say "i go to work to get away from the kids",(which i do quite often), why have them then?.It all passes so quickly.

I am a sahm and I wouldn't change it for the world. I and my dh feel that it's our role as parents to bring up our children and to be the ones who are there for them 24/7. Yeah sure we have family (gp's in particular) who are more than willing to look after dd but we personally feel that it's our role as parents to be there.
I also haven't heard good things about some nurseries that would give the confidence to put dd into their sole care for X hours aday.
Why would I want them to see dd's first smile, or steps, or 1st words ..? That would devastate me.

Although I understand that NOT everyone is as fortunate as we are.

We are not loaded by any means..in fact we have even less money now dd is around BUT we make sacrifices and things have changed in our lifestyle to allow me to stay off with dd.

Nothing would make returning to work more attractive...Do you think I would rather sit in an office dealing with work than stay at home developing our dd.??? Being able to go for walks when we like,shop when we like,being my own boss....

Yeah yeah, I do have hard and trying days BUT then I had these days when I worked.

BTW I feel sahm's are sooo under valued. Financially we would be bettre off if I was on the dole and claiming benefits then being a sahm. The government doesn't seem to recognise the financial strain on us but then again don't suppose they want to because that would go against their needs for nurseries iykwim. I also feel I am a minority (sahm's) and in our group of friends I am the only sahm...Sad esp when I constantly get comments like " You need to work to give you variety" and "your dd needs to go to nursery to allow her to mix" etc etc. My dd and I have all the variety we need and as for mixing with others, we attend weekly m&b sessions. TBH I feel my dd is benefiting more by me being a sahm...

If money were no object I still wouldn't leave my job, would still do 3 days per week but would leave at 2.45pm so that I could still do collection from school on the days that I worked.

I have to say I find it odd that the government would be happy for me to go and nanny somebody elses two children and would subsidise me for it. Yet will give no such help if I choose to look after my own two.

Prufrock
I can't see any tory government paying a SAHP wage of £100 per week when they'd potentially have to pay this equally to those who have never worked. (their favourite whipping boy, those unmarried council estate mothers and absent fathers for whom the CSA was supposed to be a nemesis, Ha ! That really worked !)

I have no choice but to be a sahm. Had the career etc, then got made redundant when having ds. Due to illness/complications after I couldn't go back to any job. Didn't really want to anyway as I didn't want to miss out. Then had dd and stayed as a sahm. I got more in tax credits and benefits than working. For me to work ft would mean paying out more than I earned in childcare, losing the benefits and tax credits. Partner now works ridiculous long hours for less than average wage, and could not help with dropping off/pickups etc. anyway.

If I worked pt, we would still have the expenses but only low income. I would lose present tax credits. If I do f/t, again, I would pay out nearly all or more of pay in childcare as joint income would be too high to qualify for help. Would be exhausted juggling everything and on a guilt trip. Would only get basic child tax credit.
I don't drive, buses etc. not an option, so am limited to jobs in walking distance - which are min. wage anyway - logistics would be too stressful.

Also situation of having a degree and previously worked in job that used it. Now would not get job to use it, as been out of action too long, am seen as "overqualified" for basic p/t work. So catch 22 - can't work for decent money as no recent experience, can't get a badly paid job where you don't need experience. So education wasted, all my working life has been for nothing in that respect. I would be starting over.
People's attitudes also are appalling - when working, everyone expected me to go back within 6 wks and bung child in ft nursery, and I expected to. When things changed after birth, I constantly got "when are you going back to work?"
Family expected me to be a sahm as didn't agree with nurseries/cm's. Couldn't win. Moved to new posh area, where working mums constantly looked down their noses at sahms and sahms were ladies of leisure with rich husbands. Felt very inadequate. Constantly was asked about going back to work, asked "do you work at all? no? oh you just stay at home". Then they ignored you. Moved back to "normal" working class area - very few mums work, certainly not more than 2 days pw.
DP now feels pressured to be breadwinner and says I have it easy staying at home doing nothing, so I feel pressure to go back as he says I am contributing nothing financially, although he doesn't want anyone else to look after kids. He denies resenting me but I'm constantly feeling like I should be working.
We can't afford a house on his wages alone, but if I worked and they added the joint income (2.5 x his + 1 of mine), the way they do it would mean we could borrow less than only one salary (3x, 4x, 5x etc). So again, pointless.
Can't work from home as kids constantly give me no peace! Working even p/t would make me lose my HRP and pension. Would have to pay out for clothes, travel, lunch, birthday collections etc.
Unpaid leave and chance of getting fired for taking too much time off to look after ill kids/school holidays, time off for medical appointments for kids etc.
Would love to have my own business - something that I've built from nothing etc. Can't see how on earth I would ever do it.

I do like staying at home though - no office politics, don't need to dress up all the time or race round like a headless chicken to be in the office for 9am and being stuck somewhere until 5, bullied by child hating bosses.
Would like to have "me" back sometimes, away from kids when they drive me mad!
Also if I had more kids in future, I'd have to leave work anyway to look after them.
I read ages ago that the government was extending nursery places to 2 yr olds by the end of this decade anyway, and increasing maternity leave, so if they did that, you would get time with them whilst they're babies, go back to work for a while then get more help with costs of nursery etc. Sick of beating myself up about it.

I agree. i have a few friends who were made to go to work by their partners. They didn't have any choice. I also think that the idea that you are with the kids all day long is a fairly new one. On one side of my family in the 1920s my great gran was a single mum with 3 kids who worked in a mill (the mother not the kids) the other side had a nanny but the mum didn't work. It's only been since domestic appliances became more prevalent that we have had so much leisure time to spend with our kids.

As I said. i work but don't intend to forever I'm a sahm at heart although I do lke the idea that it gives my girls respect for me which i didn't ahve for my sah mum (i think that went deeper than the sah part though). The problem for me is the lack of flexibility in the workplace. I didn't get bored or understimulated when I was off work but like Drosophila I did find my confidence was knocked (although I prefered it as you have to be quite a bitch in my job, it sort of softened me).

It so annoys me these discussions if they center always around women being greedy. What about the men? Do they not have any decision making here? Are they not greedy too? These discussions can sometimes be so pointless becuase people will have chosen generally to be a SAHM and some women will have chosen to be a WOHM. Others do not have that choice and so there are many reasons why this situation arises and it has always been the case. But then men help make the decision too. Did anyone here not discuss with their partner what they were going to do? Of course you did? So stop blaiming the poor Mom. There are a lot of men who like women to work or stay at home and in many cases this will colour the decision that the woman makes or have we turned into a civilisation that just everybody does what the hell we like without talking to their kids and families.

i was a sahm for four years because I wanted to be and thought it was the best thing for my child. Financially we just about managed but the credit card got a hammering. We then moved country and I had to work because dh couldnt find a job. At first I loved being back in the workplace, being with adults and solving problems etc. But I soon realised that this was an unreal juggling act and I was always running trying to beat the clock. I found i was always guilty, guilty about dd, guilty about the kids I was teaching. It wasn't humanley possible to give everything to everyone. I worked in a place which made no allowances for working mums and I was expected to stay all hours and give 150% even though I was looked at as being not a proper teacher because I had a child. I began resenting the kids I was teaching as I felt I was spending more time with them than dd. When I got home I was too tired to do much with dd. I became really down. Luckily for me Dh got a good job and I was able to leave. It's the best thing I have ever done. I had a couple months of doing nothing and now I work 6 hours a week while dd is at school and do the occasional stuff from home and I feel sane again. I know I am lucky to be in this situation and alot of people can't be.

Hotmama - I'm surprised you're so vitriolic about a thread that was so civilised. I hadn't seen any patronising comments towards SAHMs at all. Maybe you've read them elsewhere, different boards, different threads, but why not leave that aside and join in with what we were talking about on here?

As for the comment that people who can't afford children shouldn't be having children - wow, that's the world over-population solved then, most of Africa wiped out.

Expat, Sorry if you feel I was suggesting that all mothers who work do so for luxuries. As I said before, I'm well aware that for many it's a case of necessity.
FWIW, I disagree with the concept that everyone has a choice and that all you have to do is go without a few extras. There are many couples where both are low earners or where one partner is disabled. For them to drop a wage would mean their family going without the basics.

Can I just clarify that I was whinging about those that see their choice as the only one rather than those who very clearly don't have a choice.

But don't we poor working Mums have kids so they can look after us in our old age?

I think when a WOHM talks about the lack of stimulation they are talking about themselves not all SAHMs. I have been a SAHM for 14mths and I have lacked stimulation. LArgely this is to do with isolation of living in London and simply not having enough people to talk to. If I had a big circle of friends that I met with often then no doubt I would be more than stimulated. For me stimulation comes in the form of conversation. If I don't have anyone to bounce ideas off I become introverted.

My DS has to attend hosp about once a year and I have a long chat with the consultant. The last visit I found difficult. I was a bit tounge- tied and very self conscious. I think this was largely to do with my isolation and a slow erosion of my confidence.

My last few jobs have forced me to confront people and deal with difficult situations and I had developed skills that were not natural to me. A little while away from work and I lost these skills. The same thing happened when I had 4mths off work on sick leave.

Exactly, Caligula. Women are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

As my father always said, 'Money isn't everything. Unless you have none.'

Lots of people do all that before they have children. This idea that you can always downshift - if you're at the bottom, you've already given up all the fripperies you can. So there's nothing you can give up, so you have to work.

Unless you go on the dole of course, and then people who would otherwise criticise you for being a WOHM can criticise you for being a scrounger instead.

Ah, happy days.

Yes indeed, homemama. For surely if we all had second-hand clothes and toys, basic food and walked we could stay at home and have plenty of time to be smug and generalise that most WOHM do it solely to keep up w/the Joneses. Not to patroniSe anyone or that.

Again I agree, Greensleeves. There are just as many santamonious SAHMs. They frustrate me too!
Parents must make choices based on their own circumstances and try not to judgmental or have preconceptions of those who choose otherwise.

And being poor doesn't mean you don't love,does it!

I'm a SAHM for the past 6 years (previously worked 20 yrs) and my kids are at school. Absolutely love it. Great to spend time with them, both in the morning and when they get back from school. I'm always busy and active. Partner away from home on business lots so I am the managing director of my little brood. Also do voluntary work on a weekly basis, Know that I'm extremely fortunate. Not for everyone but I wouldn't change it for the world.

This SAHM vs. WOHM argument is getting REALLY boring everyone.....

99% of women want to do what is best for their families, for some it is staying at home and for some it is working. You can be an intelligent and interesting woman in the office or at home.

Wouldn't the world be a boring place if we all made the same choices about everything??????

Live and let live............

I didnt say that about holidays I meant everything,clothes (mostly second hand), toys (mostly second hand) no car, walking a lot. Bassic food, no cakes and sweets (rarely), I know what going without is.Don't patronize me.
All i'm saying is that people expect a lot more these days and feel that they should go to work to keep up with everyone else.
I'm not stupid enough to think that all mumms can stay at home. But you do not think about having kids if you really can't afford them,surely.Or you sacrifice your previous standard of living to have them.

You've led a very priviledged life if you honestly believe that, footie.

'Why have kids if you can't afford them?'

In other words: working poor people shouldn't have kids. Gees, thanks. Guess us working poor just aren't capable of loving our kids as much as someone who has the privilege of being able to stay at home.

Wow. That's quite an offensive statement.

So scrimping meant you couldn't have holidays. Aw, what a miserable existence! No holidays.

If only it were that simple for most of us who work to pay rent and eat. Holidays are honestly the last thing on my mind when I pay the bills w/the money I earn.

Still don't agree, and your not a pleb, i'm not insulting you i'm disagreeing.
Why have children if you can't afford them? My parents couldn't afford to go on holiday we scrimped and scraped. I don't believe women don't have the choice in "this modern climate". I think people have just got greedy.
I understand i am lucky that i've got a DH that earns and that some people on their own have to work.

Well I think there's a middle ground there - of course there are many women who go to work, not necessarily in jobs they enjoy, and work bloody hard to put food on the table and support their children because they have to. More power to them and I admire them. I am fortunate enough not to be in that position at the moment, but things can change - it doesn't do to get too comfortable!

I think what homemama was reacting to, though, and what I also find hurtful, is an attitude amongst women who work because they prefer working to looking after children all day. Some of them assume - and are very vocal about it - that SAHMs must be wet, bovine, unambitious, dull creatures whose idea of an intellectual dilemma is whether to dress baby up in peach or lemon, and whether or not to put butter in the mashed potatoes.

I think the problem cuts both ways. I've seen catty comments from SAHMs about WOHMs being unnatural, careerist bitches who don't care about their children, don't have proper instincts and only care about money. These comments are IMO aimed at the minority of WOHMs who express the hurtful attitudes towards SAHMs I've outlined - but women who work because they need to support their kids, because they love them, read them and get hurt. There is bitching and inverted snobbery on both sides. And it is a terrible shame, because really, most women have their children's best interests at heart whether they work or not, and the only thing we can achieve by attacking one another's choices is more hurt, and a less supportive culture generally.

Sorry, bit of a rant, but I feel strongly about this!