Strike and final pension

[EuroExpat]

Weren´t you shocked when you heard on breakfast TV this morning that the average worker striking today will receive a pension of only 4000 pounds per year? I´m absolutely horrified!! And the pompous so-and-so doing the interview said men deserved to get more money as they "worked" for more years than women. This sort of thing really makes me worry that women feel feminism is no longer needed.

Everyone needs to work longer. None of this retiring at 55 or 60 lark
I don't see why my taxes should pay for the over 60s to go for free on the buses, get winter fuel subsidy, free prescriptions etc
If everyone worked til 70 or 75 more of the oldies would peg out before retirement thus saving the NHS money!

Tinker - what's wrong with just enough to live on? Tat's what we have at the moment... do you expect state pensions to fund holidays etc?

Presume you're joking Theblonde? Or at least just being provocative??

I don't have a problem with the state pension being 'just enought to live on' but as it's not properly linked to inflation 'just enough to live on' this week, is below the poverty line next.

I think the original "just enough to live on" comment was loaded ie pensions should actually be pretty mean. They shouldn't, they should give people some dignity as well so not reduced to eating spam.

I accept the need for people to work as long as they can and not necessarily have a certain cut-off point at which we can go in to retirement. Perhaps many of the women he will not have the luxury of doing this anyway as they don´t have an adequate pension. The problem with this is that:

• many people are not physically able to continue working to an advanced age; would some of you have them punished for this? For many, the day will come when working is no longer possible.
• it is difficult enough to get a job at 40 or 50; what jobs will the elderly be doing in the future? The McDo ones I think, if they are lucky and if it doesn´t upset the image of the brand... I certainly don´t relish the thought of unskilled work after a lifetime working in a profession and being renumerated accordingly.

I´m shocked by this idea that pensioners are currently scrounging from the state and don´t deserve even a free bus pass etc. No, they have worked and the pension they receive is commesurate with their length of time in the workplace. Have some compassion!

Hear, hear, Euroexpat!!

I think it is perfectly fair for government workers to get the same level of pensions and other benefits that are the norm in private industry. And this goes for all government workers... including the NHS!

Last year my company cancelled final salary pensions (and a bunch of other benfits) and at the same time there was a news article on the BBC about how NHS workers were up in arms because the NHS was considering the same. Eh? My taxes are funding this? Well, I think the NHs could find better uses for their money... like saving very young premature babies. Also, I learned on a recent thread that if you work for the NHS, you get to put your kid into a subsidised daycare. Now wouldn't that be nice!!

Uwila - completely agree. In general terms the pension available to public sector workers is still superior to that available in the private sector - at a very low (6%) contribution rate. Why should the general public be asked to subsidise enhanced pension benefits for one group of workers when they may be struggling to save sufficiently for their own retirement.

Times have changed we need to adapt our expectations and lifestyles to cope with these changes.

"I think it is perfectly fair for government workers to get the same level of pensions and other benefits that are the norm in private industry. And this goes for all government workers... including the NHS!"

I'm sure they probably are - The average pension for a council worker is less than £4,000 a year and for women £31 a week, according to the unions. That's just over £1600 for women.

Certainly don't get the salaries, co cars, private medical schemes etc that private industry gets.

essvee - I wasn't joking

We have to face up to the fact that we cannot afford all these oldies. I don't begrudge the over 75s but some of my mom's mates are hitting 60. They are not old and could easily work another 5-10 years.

Uwila, the way things are going, there won´t be any nursing staff left to care for the premature babies even if the equipment is there. You think nurses should be grateful for the subsidised daycare, NO, YOU be bloody grateful they choose to use it and can turn up for work! Nurses are leaving the profession in their droves!

Same thing re teachers in the state sector. Only ONE teacher I trained with 10 years ago has not moved on to another career. Some folk bitch about the long school "holidays" teachers get. Well, only one out 50 people I know chose to keep them, given the 60-70 hours of unrelenting grief we got every week in term time!

Is this telling you something about the joys and privileges or life in the public sector? To get and retain good staff in any sector you have to make it worth their while. Otherwise they vote with their feet. And who´s left then?

Tinker , compared with how much from a personal pension belonging to a non public sector worker who made contributions for the same number of years ?

Unless we have a comparision figure for a non public sector employee who has put aside the same amount of money in contributions over the same length of working life we cannot determine whether the public sector employee is hard done by.

My salary is nothing impressive. Enough to live on. But certainly doesn't afford bragging rights. Company car? Never had one. Medical insurance? I have it but it's joke. Covers hardly anything.

Uh, I'd like to know where those figures come from. Are the womens pensions lower because they spent less time in work? That's not particular to council workers. Any woman (or man) who spends less time working has a lower pension.

I am opposed to special perks for government workers. Why should they get more than the rest of us?

But Tinker those pension figures are based on their years of service and salaries. And the final salary rules are quite generous.

For example a cleaner on £5.95 an hour working 12 hours a week ain't going to accure a great pension anywhere but it will be a damm sight better in the public sector than the private. And such a cleaner wouldn't be receiving any of the other benefits your mention in the private sector either.

EuroExpat - as an aside Teachers and Nurses aren't affected by the current debate around the Rule of 85. They have and always have had different pension schemes.

Euroexpat, your point encompass much more than benefits. Teacher leave because of low salaries, poor working conditions, etc. I'm not saying we shouldn't pay them fairly. Just that they don't have a right to perks no one else gets. So, say teachers in the state system make as much as those in private schools, then that's fair.

But to refuse to collect my rubbish and shut down the local scholls because you have to work as long as everyone else... no, I'm not in support of that.

I agree that public sector employers have to be able to offer subsidised creche facilities if this is what is needed to attract enough nursing staff into to the workforce locally.

This needs to be done on an individual employer basis though and not enshrined in union law as a right across the U.K. for every single public sector worker with alternative payments available for those who didn't need the creche perk and it's surprising how often in the past this sort of thing happened.

Public sector workers don't all get creche perks... I certainly don't and neither do others working for my Council (London Borough).

I'm surprised no-one else has picked up on LeBlonde's comments... tantamount to the introduction of involuntary euthanasia???

BTW I am essvee but was advised to change my name as it's too similar to essbee... :)

'But to refuse to collect my rubbish and shut down the local scholls because you have to work as long as everyone else... no, I'm not in support of that. '

I agree.

As for TheBlonde's comments, I for one plan to take up smoking again and become an old soak in hopes of ending my life before I wind up a burden on my family and society and surviving years and years w/no quality of life at all whatsoever.

Your decision - voluntary euthanasia - but we don't all feel the same way!!

I never said everyone has to feel the same way or that involuntary euthanasia is a good idea, just what I hope works for me.