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Barrister faces ruin as she is convicted of assault

77 replies

Astelia · 20/10/2012 05:48

I can't see another thread on this yet, apologies if I have missed one. Details here.

I wonder where the dad was, why the daughter wasn't in trouble for wasting police time and why she was such a spoilt brat. Both parents need to take responsibility for the daughter's terrible behaviour, though we all know that the best parents can have children who behave appallingly. The mother shouldn't have flown off the handle but goodness knows she was provoked.

I wonder if the daughter is sorry for her part in this and also why it actually went to court.

OP posts:
LtEveDallas · 20/10/2012 10:12

I didn't think a conditional discharge was treated as an actual conviction? My understanding is that the mother pleaded guilty, not that she was found guilty. If she had been found guilty after pleading innocent then she would have had a conviction and a different punishment.

To that end, how can her career now be in tatters? She would have been advised to give the plea she gave in order to save her career.

Typical DM exaggeration I expect.

SaraBellumHertz · 20/10/2012 10:17

What's to me animation ?

She pleaded guilty. A conditional discharge is still a conviction, but is a very very lenient sentence (only an absolute discharge which is rare as hens teeth is moreso) A conditional discharge is basically a courts way of saying we really don't think what you did was wrong.

LtEveDallas · 20/10/2012 10:21

Ahh that makes sense. In the Military we have "Admonishment" which is our way of saying "You have been a very very naughty boy, consider yourself punished" rather than actually punishing him Grin

Animation · 20/10/2012 10:52

To you sarah was in the post - one back.

As i said, I was not impressed with the mother denigrating her 11 year old daughter's personality in court. If you're in the wrong, - guilty, just say so. The police must have decided to take out a criminal prosecution on her and thought it serious enough to do so. And she was convicted - that doesn't mean that her behaviour should be minimised because she wasn't punished more severely.

SaraBellumHertz · 20/10/2012 11:04

Animation for the fourth time she pleaded guilty how on earth does that amount to denigrating her daughters character or that she didn't own up?

Animation · 20/10/2012 11:15

...because Sara - we are under the impression that that this daughter is a spoilt horrible little brat. Where has that information come from if it's not from the mother?

Hmmat your '4th time'.

SaraBellumHertz · 20/10/2012 11:28

Why does that come from the mother?!

The daily mail have reported a number of "facts" which have led MNers to call the DD a brat. Why do you assume they ate the mothers words/feelings?

When the mother pleaded guilty the crown will have set out the facts of the case. This will include the issues about the DD calling the police, hitting her with a coat and throwing washing. They will be matters that either the DD admitted to, or more likely the police witnessed. Either way it will be agreed that that is what happened. The DM will almost certainly have got their story from a reporter at court so Im stumped as to why you think this is the mothers fault.

Although given your very clear anti -career agenda not surprised that you are now simply making things up Hmm

You keep saying she has been convicted and didn't own up when in fact she pleaded guilty - you're either wilfully ignoring this it just being thick.

Animation · 20/10/2012 11:50

"Although given your very clear anti -career agenda not surprised that you are now simply making things up"

Where have you got that idea that I am anti-career?

No I'm not making things up - I am making comments on what's been reported. This girl's personality comes out pretty bad.

I read this story and didn't assume that this girl is a horrible little brat. Her mother (and the DM combined) have contributed to to us having this impression though.

And this has lead to some victim blaming.

Animation · 20/10/2012 11:53

"given your very clear anti -career agenda"

That twisting of my words makes me think you could be a barrister sara!

ProphetOfDoom · 20/10/2012 11:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LtEveDallas · 20/10/2012 12:05

I'm not sure how telling the truth, ie about what happened that night is denegrating the daughter? The police would have reported what happened when they were there, the mum would have told them what happened after she had been arrested and the solicitor would have repeated it all in court.

I agree it doesn't sound very nice, and it's pretty horrible reading about a child in that way, but that's the DM for you. I'm not convinced the mother can be held at fault here.

SaraBellumHertz · 20/10/2012 12:30

You read that story and your first thought is it's the mothers fault because she may put her career first? - cant think of much more blatant anti-career sentiment.

Animation · 20/10/2012 12:44

I had several thoughts all at once. Main thought being that their relationship didn't look good. My thoughts that linked to the mother's career was about her wanting come across well even at the expence of her daughter's integrity - maybe to maintain her reputation and good image. That was my career angle.

Basically the daughter needed a lift, the mum refused to give a lift or money for a taxi. The girl got frustrated and basically threw clothes around the place. Not out of normal limits for a child that age. The child got assaulted - badly enough that the police wanted to prosecute. There are some gaps in this story but I'm on the kid's side.

LtEveDallas · 20/10/2012 12:52

Made a time-wasting phonecall to the police (an offence in itself), threw clothes, hit her mother in the face repeatedly, pulled down a bookshelf, damaged belongings.

Not normal behaviour in my house Confused

Frontpaw · 20/10/2012 12:56

Child being bratty. Throws a strop after being told she can't do something. Calls the police (god, my mum would have killed me for that)
Police being called out probably winds up mum more as she works in this area and was more than likely very embarassed too.
Kid acts up some more and throws clothes around, slams doors and knocks over furniture.
Mum - who had a couple of drinks - gets more wound up and goes to grab/whack child.
Hair gets caught and pulled out (I do this to myself on the kitchen shelp all the time - and with my watch strap).
Police come round again.

If she wasn't a barrister (or teacher or policewoman, etc) the story wouldn't have made the news. I'm assuming child wasn't on an 'at risk' register or that the police have been called to domestic incidents before.

Kids can try the patience of a saint, and after a couple of drinks, I'm sure a few parents lash out. Kids are beaten, starved, abused, denied education and murdered in this country every year. My sister worked in a school where kids came to school with bashes and bruises regularly.

I don't agree with whacking kids - my mum was belted as a child and was knocked out at school by a nun who decided to 'knock' some english into her head literally with a blackboard - but I can't point a finger at another mum who tugged out some hair on a childs head (not even sure if she did it deliberately). Yes, the child sounds brattish - but no more than a lot of children (and I am making assumptions here, but I do see a few over privelidged little madams who are very used to getting their own ways and are extremely vocal - they have been brought up like this, not born like this).

I can't begin to imagine how unhappy this family must be - what goes on behind closed doors, eh? Can you imagine if her career is up shit creek because of one explosive incident?

DoIDare · 20/10/2012 12:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Frontpaw · 20/10/2012 13:00

'Are we going skiing this year mummy?'
'We would be if you hadn't torpedoed my career you ungrateful litte brat. Go to your room and stay there until you're 18.'

Frontpaw · 20/10/2012 13:03

People will be loving the scandal though.

Animation · 20/10/2012 13:06

Not sure WHY she phoned the police to be honest. That's a gap. I understand she kept swinging a coat at her mum, and the coat hit the face. Not saying that's good - this girl got very frustrated. And we don't know how provoking and frustrating the mum was do we. We do know she was drinking heavily.

I don't think it's that abnormal for an 11 year old in a highly stressed state. It doesn't mean that this incident represents her whole personality.

Frontpaw · 20/10/2012 13:12

I think we've all been an 11 year old girl (well most of us). The whole unfairness of the world, the melodrama, the challenging of authority...

peeriebear · 20/10/2012 13:21

It says 'repeatedly hitting her in the face with a jacket' which sounds rather more violent than swinging a coat at someone. Especially a girls' denim jacket type affair with metal buttons for eg.

Frontpaw · 20/10/2012 13:22

When I play wrestle with my 8 year old, he can be suprisingly strong! I can't imagine an 11 year old in full fury.

LtEveDallas · 20/10/2012 15:01

We do know she was drinking heavily

No we don't Confused They even said that in court - that the police had no concerns. Animation I really think you are reading too between the lines.

MrsToddsShortcut · 20/10/2012 17:29

'A conditional discharge is still a conviction, but is a very very lenient sentence (only an absolute discharge which is rare as hens teeth is moreso) A conditional discharge is basically a courts way of saying we really don't think what you did was wrong'

Sorry to slightly sidetrack, but is this true? To be clear, I'm actually glad the mother didn't get a stronger sentence, as I don't think it would serve any purpose, but, my abusive ex got a 6 month CD for 4 breaches of a Non Molestation Order. I'd hate to think that the court didn't really think he'd done anything wrong...Confused

Snorbs · 20/10/2012 17:43

Hmm. Let's just try this as a gedanken experiment:

Headline: "Drunk father convicted of assault after admitting he grabbed 11yo daughter by the hair during argument and 'accidentally' ripped some out; given conditional discharge."

Mumsnet Massive: "That was an over-reaction by the court. He could lose his job. Anyway, 11yo girls can be right little swines."

You know, I can't quite see that happening.