Nine in ten Scots 'living off the state'

[SkippyYourFriendEverTrue]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/9593135/Nine-in-ten-Scots-living-off-states-patronage.html

"Only 283,080 households north of the border ? 12 per cent of the total ? pay more in tax than they receive in public services."

Of the 12% who pay more in tax than the benefits they receive you also have to remember that many of them will have public sector jobs so actually the proportion who directly or independently live of the state will be higher than the stated figure suggests.

My DW comes from Newcastle and it is very similar. Low pay, a high dependency on benefits, state pension and tax credits combined with a very large public sector cohort in the workforce means that direct and indirect dependence on the public purse is very high there as well.

What it says is that Scotland is quite a "socialist" country, where more people are net gainers from the tax system, and fewer people are net losers.

It doesn't say that people are living on benefits. It says that rich people's taxes are paying proportionately more towards healthcare, education, etc.

What exactly is "the state" for if it's not to distribute wealth out to those who need it?

I think possibly that 9.6% figures includes taxes taken from oil production.

johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2012/10/09/george-osbornes-benefit-bullshitting-hides-his-true-agenda/

The lie that people are better off on benefits than in work exposed.

Oh dear, looks like I'm a drain on the "state" then. How many English, welsh, northern Irish does the same label apply to?

Forgive me for being ignorant, I'm merely Scottish and obviously a second class British citizen, but what do we pay tax for if it isn't to provide public services?

According to the most recent figures, Scotland contributed 9.6 per cent of Britain?s tax take and accounted for 9.3 per cent of public spending. This statement more or less blows her statement out of the water, considering, Gideon was beating his drum the other day saying those who earn more have to shoulder more of the burden of sorting the deficit with the 45p tax rate.

And why shouldn't the 9.6% include oil revenues. The oil industry is a major employer in the northeast, Aberdeen wouldn't be one of the most expensive places to live without the oil. Aberdeens house prices didn't plummet during the crash. Things slowed, but most property there has maintained it's value.

I'm fed up of Scotland being billed and England's poorer cousin, that needs hand outs from Westminster just to survive. And if the Tories think that by accusing 90% of the population of being a drain on the state, then come referendum day Scotland might just flick them the proverbial and tell them where to go.

FrothyOM

It's absolutley vile that people in low paid jobs are described as living off the state and a net drain.

Nothing vile about it. I think the 'vile' thing here is that knee-jerk Guardianista reaction you have to reading the truth about the dependency created by the welfare state.

It just illustrates the inequality within the system and the massive pay gap between rich and poor. Now that's vile.

No it doesn't. It illustrates just how much money the rich put in to the system. With the amount of welfare available you have to earn something like £30,000 a year to be a net contributor to the state's coffers.

Did you really have no idea how the welfare state worked?

If the rich paid their employees better wages maybe there wouldn't be so much dependency on tax credits and housing benefits. If people didn't not have these in work top ups they would be homeless and go hungry.

Yes, I understand how welfare works thanks.

The real problem is low wages, high housing costs and also the amount we have to pay for food and fuel.

^^ and childcare!

My husband does a 40 hour week for the NHS and based on the £30k and below drain figure then he is a significant drain......and a government employee. If we were living of his salary rather than mine then we would be in dire straights and require tax credits etc etc.

FrothyOM

If the rich paid their employees better wages maybe there wouldn't be so much dependency on tax credits and housing benefits. If people didn't not have these in work top ups they would be homeless and go hungry.

And if wishes were horses then beggars could fly.

Yes, I understand how welfare works thanks.

But you didn't seem to realise that our welfare system here in the UK means that the bottom 50% of the population never contribute more than they'll take out.

The real problem is low wages, high housing costs and also the amount we have to pay for food and fuel.

Mmm, but are you prepared to address the main reason for the deflation of wages over the last 10 years and for high housing costs? That's mass immigration from the EU (65%) and beyond (35%). I doubt that you are.

Mmm, but are you prepared to address the main reason for the deflation of wages over the last 10 years and for high housing costs? That's mass immigration from the EU (65%) and beyond (35%).

But then hasn't Scotland been actively encouraging immigration to ensure sustainablity? ....looks like that is maybe not having the benefit that was expected?

Mmm, but are you prepared to address the main reason for the deflation of wages over the last 10 years

It's gone on for 30 or so years, and it's called Global Capitalism. Wages have stagnated because well paid jobs have been allowed to be exported, first to Eastern Europe, like my job in the late 80s making car parts, and now to the Far East. All because labour is cheaper out there. Now we are paying the price for these short sighted idiots chasing bigger profits and not looking at the misery they leave behind.

As an island we have always depended on immigration, so to blame that for our current ills instead of the real culprits smacks of hypocrisy and makes you sound like a corporate shill.

This explains why it is bollocks

m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/08/scotland-ruth-davidson-sums-wrong-economy?cat=commentisfree&type=article

Maybe they should look at a fairer tax system where everyone pays the same amount of tax relative to their income, so PAYE employees and the self employed pay the same in tax, close the tax loopholes.

Looking at it very basically if NMW is not a living wage and the government then has to top up that wage in order for people to live it's ludicrous really, totally unstainable.

And this is the party in charge of the economy... allowing senior members who can't even add up onto the conference stage. FFS. She should be left at the back of the room with some coloured paper and safety scissors.

edam if they enforced that across the board then the Creche corner at all the conferences would be bigger than the conference area :o

Boris would have a whale of a time. He could do more of this.

lol - and they could use food dye to make the play doh the right colour for each party.

The number of pensioners is probably higher in Scotland than in say SE England and they probably also claim more from the state in healthcare than the average person so that will bump the numbers who are taking more than they give.

Probably those high earners in the SE move to the countryside when retiring so that would also skey things.

skew not skey