Assange - foreign office threaten to arrest him

[Empusa]

Article here

They are talking about revoking the Ecuadorian embassy's diplomatic immunity in order to enter the embassy.

Wonder if they will actually do so?

He has been convicted of crimes in his past. He is a convicted criminal.

He is not innocent until proven guilty. He is given the assumption of innocence. Only Assange knows if he is truly innocent and his failure to participate in a fair open process in one of the most liberal democracies of the world where we applied to be a citizen to be two years ago seems to show that he knows he is not innocent.

I do not agree that failing to go to a country which wants to try or charge you means you are guilty. I would not head off to Saudi if I were accused of a crime there.

The asylum rules are important and I hope we uphold them in this case.

H is not a refugee so yes I agree we should uphold the asylum rules and send him packing to Sweden.

"The asylum rules are important and I hope we uphold them in this case."

Which rues do you think apply here Xenia. I was under the impression there are no rules that require a country to allow a fugitive from justice to leave the country freely because another country has granted them asylum. Not that I think we should remove diplomatic status from the embassy or assume he is guilty. But if as a country we do not accept he is in danger of being illegally handed over to the US or having his rights violated, then we should be upholding our commitments to our european neighbours to help them pursue justice.

I'm a troubled fan of Wikileaks, but I don't think that makes JA special in this case. The EAW is troubling though and I would probably prefer slightly tighter controls on it over the level of charge that can result in this sort of action. But accusations of rape are very serious and I would definitely want covered. Just as I'd want Sweden to be obligated to detain and return someone who was accused of raping me.

"I do not agree that failing to go to a country which wants to try or charge you means you are guilty. I would not head off to Saudi if I were accused of a crime there."

Not an accurate comparison.

It's more like, if you were accused of a crime (that you didn't commit) in the UK, would you run to another country and refuse to come back?

I can see why you would legitimately leave a country where there were trumped up charges against you - why on earth should you stay in a kafkaesque situation where you have sex and suddenly a few days later the women decide it is rape - don't see why that is 'fleeing'.

Yes, I saw what you wrote and I also remember reading the testimonies of these women at the time. Basically, sex was consensual. At one point she says "oh don't forget the condom" or some such. JA agrees but doesn't go get it or put it on. She only realizes that there was no condom after the act.

Which makes him a prick. But it doesn't make this act "rape" or "sexual assault". I think saying so is demeaning and offensive to victims of rape and sexual assault.

Cote, read the police statements I linked above. The victim says that they had sex without a condom because he pinned her down by the arms, that she squeezed her legs together and twisted her hips because she didn't want to have sex with him without a condom, but that he forced her legs apart and penetrated her.

The women did not decide it was rape. They described their experiences and the Swedish police also interviewed JA and it was decided by them that one of the events described warranted an investigation for rape.

Even ignoring the whole thing about sex without a condom, sex with a sleeping person is rape.

how do you have sex with a sleeping person? what a ridiculous idea

MrsGuy, you might want to do an Advanced Search on the Relationship thread before you make that assertion.

Why is it that after all those legal processes that have gone all the way to the EU Court of human rights and the fair and open court decisions have all said he has to go to Sweden there are those who think the convicted criminal Assange should be free?

"how do you have sex with a sleeping person? what a ridiculous idea"

Use your imagination

I just read on another thread NovackNGood bitching about me arguing on this one for Assange's release.

We will just have to agree to disagree. In relation to what he might be charged with he is not a criminal and has not been found guilty. The trumped up charges hardly merit shipping someone to another country. Go into any bar in London tonight and you will find girls going back home with men and hardly remembering what happened next day and it is not common for prosecutions to follow.

Let him go to Ecuador. So the interesting question is how to get him out. Either a court order. Or he is made a diplomat and given their nationality. Or perhaps getting him into a vehicle or helicopter as diplomatic cars etc cannot be got into. I suppose if enough supporters turned up the police could be distracted so he can be got out and into a diplomatic car.

Xenia he is a convicted criminal. That is a matter of record that he cannot deny

Xenia, what is the relevance of girls (?!) who barely remember what happened the next day to this case? The women giving evidence to the Swedish police weren't at bars and do remember what happened.

He can't be made a diplomat. Diplomats are appointed with approval of the receiving state. He can't go into a helicopter because the roof of the building isn't embassy property so not immune. And if he gets in a car, what's he going to do? Drive round and round England for the rest of his life?

Plus he is a criminal in the UK now because he jumped bail.

You don't automatically become a criminal in the UK by jumping bail.

Well he isn't a criminal in the UK yet. There will be a warrant for his arrest on suspicion of alleged bail offences.

"Drive round and round England for the rest of his life?" - well one trip on the M25 should see to most of that.

Cant he get in a car and go on a ferry?

WHat ferry would take him? A ferry doesn't have any diplomatic privileges.

Good point. He wouldn't be allowed to stay sat in the diplomatic car on the car deck would he.

I wonder if he'll wait a cople of years and then be smuggled out in a bag, to a car and kept in the boot then onto a ferry.