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Woman Loses Fight to Use Her Frozen Embryos

170 replies

expatinscotland · 07/03/2006 11:01

This woman had her ovaries removed due to ovarian cancer. She had eggs fertilised w/her former partner's sperm. They were together when she had them fertilised, of course, w/his permission. Then he w/drew that permission.

Whaddya think?

\link{http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4779876.stm\woman loses fight}

OP posts:
gomez · 07/03/2006 13:32

Fair point Carla but why has that become his responsibilty?

Why should he be responsible for ensuring his ex-partner can have 'her' (but infact their) natural child?

And why does she deserve to become a mum? I don't believe that anyone deserves or has a right to parenthood - it is a gift for us all surely?

pashmina · 07/03/2006 13:36

so why can't she have the "gift" of being a mother?

carla · 07/03/2006 13:38

gomez, I don't think she was asking him for any parental responsibility. Don't know, may be wrong..

Of course he shouldn't be responsible for ensuring his ex partner can have a child, and as you rightly say, children are a gift. But it's a gift bereft of her for her lifetime in this case, isn't it?

Piffle · 07/03/2006 13:45

She cna have donated eggs that are fertilised with a new partners sperm or a donor sperm.
This is her last chance to have HER own biological child.
You cannot absolve a parent of legal and moral responsibility by signing a letter saying so! The CSA (if they ever get to sorting themselve out) would not acknowledge that.
Also what if she died and left that child, it would be HIS responsibility, also should she have won, that child grows up knowing that it's father fought tooth and nail for it not be created.
Tough one indeed though for Ms Evans and one can feel nothing but desperately sad for her.

gomez · 07/03/2006 13:46

Pashmina - if she was pregnant then indeed there would be nothing he could do but she isn't.

And bluntly she can't have the 'gift' of motherhood with her (their) natural child because she isn't physically capable - the same as a huge number of other woman. She could do what many other woman do in such circumstances and use a donor egg and sperm.

Carla - sorry wasn't clear didn't mean parental responsibility but responsibilty for her becoming a mother.

ruty · 07/03/2006 13:50

its just so sad that those embryos are going to be destroyed - couldn't they be used as donor embryos for somebody else who can't have children? they are potential lives and it is such a waste.

pashmina · 07/03/2006 13:53

gomez - she shouldn't have to use a donor egg and sperm when she has some perfectly good fertilised eggs already.

I think her reasons for wanting to use the embroyos for ivf are a lot stronger than his reasons not to.

obviously not a perspective shared by then many judges she has had to take her case to.

wannaBe1974 · 07/03/2006 13:55

you cannot compare a one night stand to someone who has made a conscious decision to not continue with treatment that might result in a pregnancy. If a woman becomes pregnant, then the embrio has implanted and is beginning to grow. No-one can make that woman go ahead and have a termination, just as no-one can make her go through with a pregnancy if she doesn't wish to have the baby. But in the case of these frozen embrios, the couple in question created embrios so that they could start a family when they reached the point in their lives where they wished to do so. It's the same as someone saying that he wanted to have a child with someone in the future, only in this instance they had to take steps to ensure that that was able to happen. However, between the time that the couple decided that they "would like to have a family in the future" and actually went ahead with the process to achieve a pregnancy, the relationship between them broke down. Had this been a normal situation, the couple would have gone their separate ways and would not have proceeded to have children together, end of. Had this been a situation where the couple were part way through an IVF treatment and had perhaps already had a treatment and still had frozen embrios remaining, they would not have continued to have children together, the embrios would have been destroyed. The only one thing that makes this situation different is the fact that if Natallie Evans does not have these embrios put back, she will not be able to have a child that is biologically her's. But that does not, imo, mean that her partner should become a father just because if he refuses then she won't be able to have her own children. It's all very well saying that he doesn't have to take financial responsibility etc, but maybe he doesn't want the emotional responsibility of being a father, maybe, and we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but maybe he just doesn't want this particular woman to be a mother to his children. After all, if you split with an ex wouldn't you say there were reasons why you'd split and you wouldnt want to have any more children with them?

I think now that Natallie Evans should seriously question what she wants. Does she want to have a child that is her's? or does she want to be a mother? Because in reality the two are different. Even if she is unable to have a child that is biologically her's, she could, in the future, have a child with any new partner if she were to use doner eggs, if the desire to be pregnant was that great, that is an avenue that could be pursued. I would imagine that it's likely that the quality of the embrios she currently has in storage probably is diminishing by the day, after all they are nearly 5 years old now, chances are that even if she was able to win her last court battle, the treatment to implant them might not be successful anyway.

If she really thinks that she deserves to be a mum, I think she should let thig go and seak to pursue other avenues to achieve parenthood.

ruty · 07/03/2006 13:58

desperately sad though. To have that illness and come thru the other end and then be denied to be able to use the embryos that were stored for safety away from the radiotherapy and then to have then destroyed - i just feel it is heart breaking.

carla · 07/03/2006 14:01

wannabe, agree but lots of men have children with partners when they'd really not want to be in that situation. Nuffin' different there, surely?

donnie · 07/03/2006 14:01

the court has made the right decision.

wannaBe1974 · 07/03/2006 14:02

yes it's sad but how many women are unable to have children for many reasons. How many women go through IVF and have embrios put back and are still unsuccessful? She could still have a child, she could still be pregnant and carry a child and give birth to it and bring it up as her own, and I think that if you carry a child through pregnancy then the bond would be the same as if it was biologically yours.

gomez · 07/03/2006 14:02

Ruty - think the embryos are getting too old (5 years in October) to be used by anyone TBH.

Pashmina - not only the many judges but many people here and in RL too. It is difficult I agree. Her reasons are she wants her (their) natural child, he doesn't - no view stronger or more worthy than the other IMO. She can still experience motherhood, perhaps not in the way she envisgaed but never the less these other options are available to her.

carla · 07/03/2006 14:03

ruty, wholeheartedly agree. No one will be able to fathom the wrongs and rights of it, but as far as I'm concerned I think you've hit the nail on the head.

cod · 07/03/2006 14:04

cant read whole thread but i htink hes an arse

pashmina · 07/03/2006 14:04

the more this question is delved in to, the more difficult it becomes...

there are so many ways to become a parent available now - adoption, fostering, IVF, own eggs, dodno eggs, donor sperm, step parenting, surrogacy etc etc. I just really feel for this woman, she desperately wants her own baby. I'm adopted, and when I had my first dd, it was the first time I had ever set eyes on somebody who was genetically linked to me. It was so overwhelming, and I understand why this would mean so much to her. I suppose she willhave to resign herself to using donor eggs, and I am sure if she eventually has a baby she will love it anyway.

desperateSCOUSEwife · 07/03/2006 14:05

Sad story but agree with others that the court made the right decision

carla · 07/03/2006 14:05

And in summing up...

we have....

The Cod Grin

bundle · 07/03/2006 14:06

what about if he wanted to use the fertilised eggs with another partner?

Tinker · 07/03/2006 14:08

Think judgement is right. No idea about teh reasons why teh relationship ended but would be horrified to be forced to become a parent with some of my exes.

This man doesn't want to become a parent with her. Harsh for her but feel sorry for the slating he is getting for acting responsibly.

wannaBe1974 · 07/03/2006 14:08

yes Carla but the difference between a man fathering a child that he doesn't want and a man being forced to father a child he doesn't want is vast imo. In the first case, if a man doesn't want to be a father, then he should take precautions to ensure that doesn't happen! In the case in question, this man has done exactly that. At the time the couple split, he wasn't a father, so he withdrew his consent to ensure that didn't happen in the future either.

carla · 07/03/2006 14:08

bundle, that never came into the equation though, did it? Interesting thought, though.

vickiyumyum · 07/03/2006 14:09

i do think the xp is being harsh by not allowing her to use the embryos that they have in storage, but at the same time, i can see his point of view. from what i ahd read and seen on a documentry about the couple, he is mainly unhappy that she is prepared to have the treatment with no partner and no support network, basically to knowingly make herself and her child a one aprent fmaily with no income, aprt from state benefits.

can the woman not have children by ivf with donor eggs in the future? surely if she is so desperate to have a family, when she meets her future partner and they want a family this would be a suitable option for her. thousands of women each year benefit from donor eggs and sperm and i'm sure that they don't feel that the child is any less theirs than if they were conceived naturally.

cod · 07/03/2006 14:09

i think oh come on its not cgoing to hurt him to show some compassion for her

Tinker · 07/03/2006 14:10

He might be in a new relationship

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