Streets closed to allow children to play outside.

[Meglet]

Reclaiming the streets for kids

I love this idea, temporary road closures so children can play out again. We we lucky enough to live in a cul-de-sac so were always allowed out in the 1980's.

The mum in the article is quite right in saying the park isn't an answer as you have to trek back and forth and get back for supper. At least the parents can get things done at home if children are playing out the front together. We live on a rat run so I can't put the kids out the front .

TO me from cutteduppear "Erebus - what the heck do you know about it? This street is where my friend lives with her new baby and she was telling me about it this morning, she is so proud that her neighbours have initiated this. They are not the kind of people you condemn so high handedly. They are blooming normal parents."

I only know what was reported in the paper, cutted. And how do you know your 'friend' with her 'new baby' won't be that kind of parent??

And I feel vindicated by the number of posters on here (not all!) who don't just see a bunch of kids 'playing out' as just a thing they do but as a positive, a role the DC fit into, something the parents direct energy into, almost like a parental box being ticked. Again, like I said, although very 'worthy', this scheme has the hallmarks of micromanaged parenting- and I'd put money on the fact that the scheme will peter out as the 'mums in hi-viz vests' patrolling it will drift off. Sad, but true.

I grew up just off Oxford Street in the late 70's/early 80's, and we were allowed out after school - a local newsagent even used to let us take their toddler girl out with them, and we were all around W1. Never any accidents other than a grazed knee from falling over on the concrete - white dog poo everywhere, mind you, but you learn to adapt to your surroundings, and while it was probably the heaviest level of traffic other than being on a motorway, we never came much to harm (even when a friend of mine got flashed at).
Yes, we're far too overprotective, and dare I say it, the streets are probably far safer than we give them credit for, and I think we're all petrified of the media's portrayal that if we let our children out in urban areas they'll get knocked over/stolen by a paedophile. If they're in groups, it's fine. It's when they're on their own that there would be a problem.

The streets where I grew up did something similar, but permanently.
They narrowed the streets, put in trees and paved areas, made them one way.
You can still drive down them, but just really slowly etc.

Its great. The houses are terraced, with just a yard each, but the kids get to be out in the street, meeting each other, playing cricket (it's Yorkshire!) and sitting on the curb, just like we used to.

Sometimes the residents committee show a film on a summer evening, projected out of the back bedroom of our old house, onto the plastered wall of the end of the terrace opposite.

More residential streets should be like this, but unfortunately a lot of people love cars more than kids.

It does sound ideal. But also totally unworkable. Who chooses what streets will take part, can't see it working in London, for example. One of the reasons it worked so well 20 years ago was that were simply less cars about.

I sympathise with bright hair etal, who are lamenting the gangs of screaming, vandalising kids where they live.
We used to live on an estate, and while one of the benefits for the kids there was that because of light traffic they were out in the street, on bikes etc all the time, they could be really loud, especially as the little green across from us was a magnet for kids from other estates around, so sometimes there would be upwards of 30 kids outside my window.

I also got my window broken after I intervened to stop a few 13 year olds from destroying a tree opposite my house, so children playing out are not always going to be behaving themselves. It depends on the way they are brought up , basically.
Having said that, the core of the local kids were fine on the whole. I let them play in my driveway (no car) on the understanding that if I heard screaming they would be banished!

The main problem at the moment is that as children's play is effectively banned, the only ones we experience are those whose parents either don't care where they are, or actively want them out of the way. "responsible" parents toe the line and keep their children indoors or in back gardens.
This fuels the argument that all children are from irresponsible families, and will damage property. Then the argument is used to keep children away from others' property in case they break it, and it goes round again.
I would welcome a shift in attitude to make streets more play friendly, not because the hi vis mum brigade say so, but because children learn so much from being out with peers and not under constant direct surveillance.
Also, children growing up knowing the people on their street turn into teenagers who respect their neighbours, and groups of teenagers who wave to you are far less intimidating than "gangs of hoodies", even when they are the same teenagers.

"The main problem at the moment is that as children's play is effectively banned, the only ones we experience are those whose parents either don't care where they are, or actively want them out of the way. "responsible" parents toe the line and keep their children indoors or in back gardens."

That is not true as a blanket statement - I let my children play out and if I could be bothered to be I would be very insulted :o However I know it isn't personal. My kids are well behaved, have never damaged anyone's car or greenhouse or cat or whatever, and do play out a lot - same applies to their friends, nice, parents care, play out, not vandals... It is a very sweeping statement, which may have truth to it in some areas but absolutely is not true everywhere!

It sounds like some people live on truly awful streets with truly awful neighbours!

We grew up on a 70s estate where the kids would play in the road (football, water pistol fights etc). Yes there were nearby parks and woods which were used as well but all were valid places to play, certainly not "you can't step off our land unless it's an organised visit to the park!".

There's be the odd adult reminding us to mind the cars/windows when kicking a ball, but generally everyone was easy-going, and dare I say less obsessed than some seem to be nowadays about a ball hitting a car or window. Unless it dents a panel or smashes a window (or is done intentionally) then it doesn't actually matter does it?

Where we live the neighbours' boys pull a couple a goals out and play football pretty much all waking hours when not at school. When a car needs to get through they drag them out of the way - simple?

They could play in the back garden but that's completely different and isolating - it's not a communal social environment that allows Paul to look out of the window, see friends playing and run to join in.

Granted, where we live has very few residents and therefore little traffic. Clearly if you live along a 50mph road this simply isn't going to work/be sensible.

Erebus says kids playing out is a try hard middle class thing, while inmysparetime sees it as something only irresponsible parents who want thier kids out of the way allow - wildly different impressions there.

I guess the conclusion is that in some areas nice kids play out and it is all overall good, in other areas badly brought up kids run wild and damage property ... in many areas parents keep their children in the house and garden (if they have one) either because they are afraid their kids will be abducted or run over (fear of traffic being sometimes a justified fear due to living on a busy road, sometimes not so much, fear of being abducted being somewhat more open to debate), or because they don't trust their kids not to misbehave/ leave the agreed upon area, or because they are afraid other people will think their kids are a nuisance?

Still think there is absolutely huge social and physical benefit to the kids in being allowed to play out, and community benefit too (I am sure I wouldn't know so many people in the village if I kept my kids confined to our very small garden, and their life would also be significantly the poorer for it).

In my first post on this thread I posted that my street is welcoming of children's play, I know it is possible to foster a community spirit where play is valued.
I was not making a blanket statement, I was explaining why the "children as yobs" argument is faulty, and how it can be remedied.

"They could play in the back garden but that's completely different and isolating - it's not a communal social environment that allows Paul to look out of the window, see friends playing and run to join in. "

Absolutely 100% agree Rcheshire (am sitting on my door step watching my kids play as I type)

Could I amend my opening sentence please to read " where play is effectively banned", it makes more sense that way.

In that case sorry inmysparetime, I appear to be incapable of keeping the whole thread in my head - I have read it all but not re-read it this morning and so not remembered who said what earlier on. It is still true, though not attributable to you, that some people seem to think only yobs play out and others seem to think it is a try-hard earnest parenting thing!

No probs, it is a very emotive subject, I studied play as part of my Early Years degree, so know its value. I also have "free range" children, they are confident, mature and capable, and can assess and manage risk for themselves.
Seriously, play is really very important.

The funny thing is that a lot of our quainter rural customary events such as May Day were in part invented or revived in the 19th century as a way of getting vagrant and disruptive yoof off the streets: where bands of kids would once roam the community banging on doors and singing a few tuneless verses for money ("carol"-singing, anyone?) the church/school/village worthies stepped in and organised a village walk with proper singing, costumes, collecting bags and a tea. So this isn't a new problem.

And although you clearly can't just stick in some free street-play opportunities and expect everybody to behave, we have to accept a) children learn by example (so it may take several years to effect cultural change) and b) there's always going to be some bad 'uns. Surely at some point we have to actually make the changes we want to see in the world, rather than just suffer the consequences of poor socialisation?

We live in Switzerland where it is considered completely normal that children want to play out, probably the same as the poster from Germany described. However the situation with cars is very different from Britain. Most housing developments have underground parking, and are designed with the needs of playing out children in mind. We live in a modern development with rows of houses arranged around a central square, with sand in the middle and paths all around for children to ride bikes/ scooters. It is really nice for them to see who's outside and play spontaneously. Since they have space to play where there aren't cars there's no problem of potential damage to cars. When we return to Britain the numbers of cars parked everywhere on the streets really stands out.

I wonder if in some European countries - there are more cycle lanes & better public transport, so people don't need cars so much?
'Playing out' isn't a bad thing - just depends on the type of road you live in. Like i said earlier - the street leading into my cul-de-sac is used all the time for residents who are shift workers etc - half the residents don't have young children anyway.
It would be different if everyone had similar working hours & the majority had children.
When local toddlers do go round on their scooters, they are discouraged from talking to childless neighbours by the mums - some are ok, but some act as if every childless person may be about to snatch their child!
Obviously it's naive to trust everyone; but it's sad for those who are made to feel too uncomfortable to even smile at toddlers. Closing off the street so children can play, yet treating neighbours without children as 'suspect' would be unfair IMO.
Happily it seems that the local mums have decided that i'm 'safe' for their toddlers to babble at talk to - despite owning a toddler-biting cat.

Also - i wish some Mums would teach their children road-safety before letting them out - & i wish that certain local lads would drive into the street more slowly & carefully.. they seem to just forget that children or pets can be wandering about.

NannyPlumIsMyMum

"... We did this not long ago - basically you just give all the residents advance warning that they won't be able to move their cars between those few hours. ..."

Did any of the residents object?

I was VERY fortunate. My parents had a massive garden ( they weren't rich this was the 1970's before gardens were trendy) so all the neighbouring kids from the cul de sacs regularly played in my garden.
As a wuss I preferred it because there was less concrete to fall of your bike onto. Interestingly my mother didn't feel compelled to feed all these children they just went home when we ate.

Now in my 50's with 2 teenage sons I live in a typical edwardian treelined street in SW London, normally lined with cars. It's a fantastic diverse community but the young children largely play in each others houses and tiny gardens and the older children on the adjoining common so no complaints. BUT twice we had street parties in when the street was 100 in 2005 and then one for the jubilee earlier this month and street was emptied of cars for the day from 9am on both occasions. Within a MINUTE the street was full of children aged 0-18 all ages playing together, and they stayed there all day.

So I'd vote for it. Give kids some independence and freedom.

Ok... but where does everyone put their cars (2, even 3 per household) when there is no parking available anywhere else within 2 miles & they have to go to & from work at all hours & any (or every) day of the week?? Plus various appointments etc.
Kids having independence & freedom is fine but people have to work & have lives of their own.. i could only see that working in areas where there are no childless residents.
To be honest if you gave certain people 'advance warning of not being able to move their cars' then they would call the police or council to complain. Especially those with work vans that they need to use almost daily.
Plus kids in many areas just don't play 'nicely' once they get to 6 or 7 - not here anyway - they just bully each other from what i see; & throw things at passing cars (usually just water, or eggs! but can be stones). They aren't nasty kids but tend to encourage each other to be naughty or pick on others when they get together.

Most of the teenagers round here are nice & polite, even the 'hoodies'; but they are too old to want to hang around outside their houses - they prefer to go further from home.

The original article says residents are allowed to drive in and out of their own road Latara . But all hail the mighty car hey, god forbid we inconvenience a motorist . In places where kids play out without it being organised as a one-off event of course there are childless people, or people whose children have already grown up, and of course people use their cars - people are just considerate of each other I guess, rather than thinking that their personal priority (be it car or kids or pets or whatever, or combination) has over-riding importance.

My kids play out (the eldest is nearly 7 and they play in a group of kids from 4-10 a lot of the time, there is no bullying, though of course they have arguments, but learning to resolve them is part of growing up) and there are 4 adults, with 4 cars, in the house next door to us - they don't complain about the kids playing out, and keep their eyes open when parking and driving off, and I don't complain when they park their 4 estate cars all around the front of our house to keep their 2 car drive free for their little dog...

OMG @ keeping drive free for the little dog... Hopefully they let your kids play with it then; unless it's one of the snappy breeds that is!

The local toddlers are obsessed with cats; it's really sweet & most cats put up with it..
funniest moment was when a little boy ran up to my cat & she tried to chase his feet - i shouted 'Oh My God!' (because she can be nasty) - little boy says, 'WE DON'T SAY OH MY GODS'.. then the little brat said 'What do we say??' followed by 5 mins of making me guess what 'We' say instead - then standing by my front door repeatedly screaming 'Where ARRREEE YOOUUU' (who? not sure) until his Dad turned up to calm him down...
I admit that i couldn't stop laughing which may have encouraged him slightly... but it definitely cheered me up anyway. Plus got invited to his divorced cute Dad's house for a cuppa! :)

This just made the BBC lunchtime news!

Pity they don't build alleys any more where children could play.