Controlled Crying - stress levels stay high even when babies have learned to settle themselves.

[Codandchops]

OMG!!!

Even worse is that I could not bear to leave my DS as a baby so used to sit in the room and re-settle him every 5 mins. How shit is that? He could see me for 5 mins at a time not comforting him (even though after every 5 mins I did comfort him).

Have always felt an irrational guilt about DS's autism and wonder if I made things worse .

Need to read the research and look at numbers involved.

I haven't had time to read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned, but when I was in Australia earlier in the year the results of a study into CC were in the news and the outcome unexpectedly indicated that cortisol (sp) levels in the babies tested were lower after CC had been used as a sleep training technique. The findings were completely opposite to this study. I have been searching the internet for a report on the study, but so far all I can find is this...
www.news.com.au/national/controlled-crying-is-still-a-blubbering-mess/story-e6frfkvr-1226267210687
It is all so confusing!
Ignore the studies and go with your gut and your heart, I say.

"Sometimes you have to do things for yourself. Obviously. But be honest about them. Don't try to say that what you are doing for yourself is actually for your baby.

...

And in my experience most people who try controlled crying do it because "they want their evenings back" or something like that. Not because they are being driven to the brink by exhaustion"

That's not my experience at all. The majority of people I know who have done some ccing have literally been at their wit's end..

I also co-slept and bf'd til 2 and wore him in a sling and all of those things and was terrified I was Getting it Horribly Wrong. I really did need to step back and take some time for myself because I was absolutely ill from trying to be the perfect parent at times. I did all this while having PND-OCD and you know what, it really wasn't healthy. It would have been much more healthy to avoid that stark, black and white thinking that only the most terrible women in the world wanted an "evening back".

To me, honestly, having a more moderate and balanced approach to my own needs would have been better for my baby as well as for me.

At this stage, I believe in responsiveness, love and a sensible calm approach. I don't intend to co-sleep again because it was very bad for me, and I believe that wasn't the best thing for my son. I think we got through, and it was fine, and he is fine and now so am I but I think it also has its downsides, and there is a point at which having some boundaries between mother and child can be helpful, healthy and safest for both parties.

Ooo yippee the old "brigade" card again. love that when you have a point of view that is more child/baby orientated AP thR. You are in a brigade. Rather that than a mindless sheep tho

Ok then, I did co-sleep with dd until she was 7 months old thats when we were only getting 6 hours of broken sleep every 24hrs at the advice of 'oh co-sleep'. I was so tired that I was always breaking down in tears and I was having visions of picking her up and throwing her out of the window.

Did CC with dd and I can honestly say it was the best thing I've ever done. At 7 months she wouldn't even sit on her own. By 11 months she was crawling to walking and talking. Am not saying it was the CC but she had started to get the sleep she needed to develop.

Looking back, I would do it all again.

Cod, I'm a hippy attachment parent and my Ds has autism!

I thought his wonderful independence and indifference to me was all due to feeling secure. Turns out it is due to not caring less.

If he was predisposed to autism, it is quite possible he didn't really care how you parented, not having the social needs that nt babies have.

starlight ds2 is HFA and still cosleeps. He seems to need to more than ds1. He also bfed till 3.10 and self weaned day dd was born.

7 months is the age babies become aware they are seperate and start to develop anxiety iirc.So it is normal for them to become clingier. And ds2 was crawling at 6 months and walking at 11. I didn't do cc and I don't think it bears any relevance.

If people want to keep going back to the evolution argument, we are a tribal species and human females have always helped eachother parent their children, there is even a "maternal" instinct that grandmothers have for their dgcs, because human babies are born so helpless and need so much care. This way the mother could have a break to either get food, or I suppose just have a break mentally. We don't live like that now, especially as extended family doesn't have much importance in our culture. Therefore mothers of a newborn are often burnt out and overwhelmed. And of course many of us go out to work. Maybe society has to change, but often mothers just do what they have to do to survive. I did cc as a last resort, not on a whim, it easn't pleasant at the time, but it has all worked out fine and we are all so much better off for it.

This old chestnut again

Well I did cc with my dd because I felt that giving her the skills she needed to self soothe and settle and therefore sleep well were vital life skills. Nobody likes hearing their baby cry but I don't see the answer being to attach your baby to you at all times - I would have gone stark raving mad!!!

FWIW my dd sleeps well and I have no regrets, my dd is well loved and cared for, is secure and happy - thats what is important at the end of the day.

''7 months is the age babies become aware they are seperate and start to develop anxiety iirc.So it is normal for them to become clingier. And ds2 was crawling at 6 months and walking at 11. I didn't do cc and I don't think it bears any relevance''

Did or did I not say '' Am not saying it was the CC but she had started to get the sleep she needed to develop.

So why mention it? Just saying

Erm, read my posts

I did

"I'm not saying it was the cc but aw needed the sleep to develop". babies hit milestones at their own pace. The sleep wouldnt really have an impact. You were saying the cc gave her sleep which she needed in order to develop. Crock of poo.

And...

Why is it a crock of poo?

i'll be honest and say i didn't sleep train at my wits end, my kids slept pretty well already.

and i did CIO as i agree that babies don't have watches, and i think a really determined baby could just learn to cry for longer periods. the purpose was to get them out of our room - in actual fact only DD1 did much crying at all... and only for one night.

We very briefly tried some controlled crying on advice of HV for our twins (only leaving for a few minutes at a time) and also the pick up put down technique, where we would hold them when crying before putting back into their cots (which didn't really happen as they would scream even when being held and make themselves sick).

Neither worked. My children simply would not stop crying after 5 minutes it was an absolute nightmare. We were both up with them at least every 2 hours every night and it was killing us. So, at 7 months we started to co-sleep, and still do (they are 1 now). It works for us and means we get more sleep, although we still get night wakings it is much easier and means we can get enough sleep to function.

Here are some things I have noticed about parents who leave their babies to scream to sleep -

They don't make any distinction between a young baby and a much older child in terms of behaviour. A 6 month old baby is treated as if she is a misbehaving toddler.

They talk about their babies being 'manipulative', and just screaming to 'get what they want'. I find this inappropriate kind of emotional projection gobsmacking.

They often use the rhetoric of discipline or learning in a way that is not appropriate for a baby's age. As if what they are doing is for the moral good of their child. Teaching them a damn good lesson.

They often interpret their babies' cries as 'whining' or 'complaining'. Even once, memorably, as 'putting it on'. Again - in a 6 month old baby?

Basically there's a cognitive sleight of hand going on here. If you decide your baby is Bad, and possibly even out to Get You in some way, then harsh treatment is justified. If you believe your baby is crying for comfort, because they are lonely and terrified, then punitive measures don't come into it.

I can tell the difference between a 3 year old testing boundaries and a young baby desperate for their mother. It's not hard.

fruity yes exactly....

I hate the argument made by several including Lequeen that babes need to learn they are not the centre of the universe, or they will be in for a shock.

Learning slowly between the ages of 3 and 30 that the universe doesn't revolve around you is not a shock.

Learning at 3-6 months that even though you can't even roll over or sit up yet your parents think you are trying to wind them up and therefore won't comfort you is definitely a shock. Or shocking. One of the two.

If you CC because you are at your wits end and feel you have no option, then you may well be doing the best thing for your baby and yourself.

If you CC because you feel you need to gain the upper hand and put your whinging baby in it's place then you are at best misguided and at worst sadly pathetic.

Fruity I hope ur not saying all parents who do cc think that way and entropy I think ur slightly harsh.
I have a 9 year old daughter and a 11 month old daughter and they are both my world, for 7 months I breastfed the youngest to sleep every night as she wanted to be comforted to sleep.....no harm on her as it did the job and she felt close to Me and happy. But I was doing this for a long time and it started from about 7pm till 11pm. Meanwhile my eldest was missing her mummy and felt I was with the youngest all the time. I was tired as youngest would still wake every two hours to be comfort fed back to sleep (she wasn't hungry just wanted to be comforted back to sleep). Like I said I had to do this for 7months almost 8.
I could barely open my eyes in the morning when I had to get both girls sorted to do school run. I was snappy at times and some days cry alot due to lack of sleep.
I spoke to breastfeeding counsellor who said 'would I feed my 9year old if she woke at 2 in the morning? Ur baby is almost 8months as long as she has eaten well during the day and had a good feed before bed then she should be able to go through the night without a feed' so that's when I decided enough is enough my eldest needs me too and everyone is suffering.
So I did cc along with hubby's support and yes it was hard hearing her cry but I knew that she was clean, fed and very tired so felt ok with it. It worked and now she goes down at 7 happily lays in her cot awake for 10 mins before drifting off to sleep till 5.30am.
I get to spend an hour with eldest before she goes to bed at 8.

I never once said that my youngest was out to get me, or winding me up, or I need to put her in her place. I work with children so understand the development in children and babies and both my daughters go to bed lovely and are good girls.
I don't judge anyone for doing what they have to do to get into a routine that suits them.

My friend still sleeps with her daughter who is almost 2years, I couldn't do it but I don't think she is a bad mum, she is doing what suits her and her little girl.

Rant over

I would agree birchekel that once you have more than one you have to put the elder one first sometimes and just say - the baby will have to wait.

Thing is entropy CC is not recommended by anyone before the age of 6 months and not even then if a baby has needs which still require feeding at night. The idea of 6 months is that this is when babies in theory no longer require night feeds. They might still do though if BLW means most of the calories still come from a milk diet. I used BLW with my DS and it was great but it also meant he weaned more slowly (at his in pace). I think he was 10 months before I felt able to try CC.

Disclaimer - there is a difference between CC and giving a baby time to settle. Most of us can tell the difference between a baby who is crying from distress and whimpering/crotchety because they are tired and need to be left alone to settle.

entropygirl - sure, if someone is facing a
choice between a nervous breakdown and trying anything at all to get some sleep then that's infintely preferable to 'my baby needs to be broken so we're playing hardball' (I've heard the 'playing hardball' phrase from a friend, talking about a baby who was under a year old, and it just made me flinch).

Another thing - CC parents IME often seem to have hugely unrealistic expectations about when the hell a baby is supposed to sleep for 12 hours anyway. Where does this idea that a 6 month old baby should be able to go for 12 hours overnight without anything to drink? Very few adults do that, fgs.