China: The World's Cleverest Country

[Rezolution]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business China: The world's cleverest country.
Just found this on the website. It certainly makes interesting reading.
Any comments?

Bopomofu is only in use in Taiwan, though isn't? And is politically unacceptable in mainland China, where're pinyin is the transliteration in use.

And neither helps you learn to read characters - you still need to learn each one or look it up. And next to nothing in regular use in China (or Taiwan) is transliterated anyhow, so to be functionally literate, you need to have accomplished a great deal of rote learning.

They did not just test in Shanghai and Hong Kong (as someone posted above). The article states: "In an attempt to get a representative picture, tests were taken in nine provinces, including poor, middle-income and wealthier regions." and "

"Shanghai is an exceptional case - and the results there are close to what I expected. But what surprised me more were the results from poor provinces that came out really well."

pinyin is a system of transliteration from Mandarin to english letters.

bupomofu is a system of phonetics - i have childrens books with bupomofu script next to characters. (the very hungry mao-mao chung for e.g)

it may only be used in the lovely ROC but it works v. well. no reason for the mainland not to use it!

poor provinces may do well, but do all children even go to school in those areas?

and by 'poor province' do they mean 'massive millions strong cities in poorer areas' or have they genuinely gone out to the sticks? not clear!

the striving middle classes in all areas will put themselves through hell to pay for extra lessons.....

and lots of my chinese kids were lazy, badly behaved...etc....(though very cute)

There's a pretty huge political reason why they don't use it! And the difference between simplified/full form characters means it doesn't necessarily transfer.

Pinyin may use some letters of the alphabet, but it is remains a phoneme based transliteration system, just like bopomofu. And even with (either) transliteration alongside texts, children still need to learn the sound for every single character in order to be able to access texts other than children's primers (say the newspaper, or the subtitles on imported films/TV, or road signs: none of which carry transliterations).

i thought the idea was you could learn a guide (and chinese pronunciation seems quite tricky for chinese kids to learn when listening for fine diference) and pick up the symbols for a bit as a beginner...
i digress. the point is it doesn't need to be dull.

from what my kids said when they went to state school, English was taught exactly the same way...just rote...without much effort at making it interesting.

White children can get the same results. Its the mindset of the parents and the belief that you can control your destiny. In England when children fail the teachers are blamed, or possibly the parents. No one dares to blame the child themselves and I think this is a mistake.

Do you praise your children for being clever or working hard. A lot of western parents over praise their kids which makes real praise meaningless.

We don't attach the same status and cultural value to education. I thought the comment that we tend to ascribe more value to shopping centres than schools very interesting.

I think things are going to change dramatically in the next 20-50 years in the UK. IMO will begin to value education an awful lot more and children will be at enrichment centres and spreading their school books out in Starbucks in a way no one would believe possible today. I hope I am wrong but I fear we are in for a very rocky ride indeed.

Sorry, that should read IMO we will begin to value education...

No - not the worlds cleverest country but perhaps a community that sees potential and go hell for leather to ensure their kids are prepared for the best life has to offer economically.

I'm no hothousing mum but I see (to a degree) where they are coming from when we are so complacent in europe.

I'm with Niceguy on this. I'm not saying it's right but the east is setting the benchmark and we're just falling by the wayside and fast. I'm from an part asian background and that part of the family were adamant their kids would do well inspite of living in an area where schools were not great (possibly because they were immigrants). They did very well.

Agree about the complacency. I've listened to so many heads recently talking about the importance of having a well-rounded child and that the academics were not really that important in the great scheme of things, blah, blah. Even our (very good) school seems to under estimate the children's potential at times and accepts mediocrity. We are content generally to sit in with our take-aways, our X factor and hide our heads in the sand. It's about being industrious, about doing your best and assuming you can do it if you try. That includes academic work and things you'd rather not do.

I agree with the well-rounded aspect being desirable etc - our education system shouldn't be churning out hot-housed robots but can't they see? The sun is setting, pretty soon our children are going to have to go hell for leather to get a look in on an increasingly global marketplace. Well roundedness is a 'nice to have', a privilege and it's going to be snatched away really quite soon (IMO).

I know some that have moved east because they want their children to have a work ethic they think that westerners are lazy. Well that's one of their reasons for moving east & enrolling their children at local schools. An extreme view? Perhaps they have a point?

I can never understand how being creative and thinking laterally and inventively gets in the way of being hot technically and academically. Always seems an excuse for failing when one is held up as an alternative to the other.

Well-rounded is perfectly fine and the schools that do well-rounded properly include being hot enough academically to attract the better-heeled Chinese et al. They seem to know what they're buying even if others don't.

I agree with the well-rounded aspect being desirable etc - our education system shouldn't be churning out hot-housed robots but can't they see? The sun is setting, pretty soon our children are going to have to go hell for leather to get a look in on an increasingly global marketplace. Well roundedness is a 'nice to have', a privilege and it's going to be snatched away really quite soon (IMO).

And thirdhill

agree completely - I'm so worried about ds in this increasingly global market. I'm meeting people from around the world who are doing what they want to do -I think my dh is being way too lax and I honestly feel that europe is so blinded to the rest of the world just getting on with stuff and we're still in this 'well we're europeans and hence so much better' (which, in my view is coming from mainland europe) and I'm thinking - jeeez we need to step up to the mark.

Again, I'm not a hothouse mum but just one that thinks that the the increasingly european viewpoint that's influencing the UK (and it wasn't like this before) is pretty bloody scary in terms of what I personally think our kids have to compete with.

It's not just Europe - look at the USA.

Agree cortina but I'm in europe and hence my emphasis on this. Plus I do think that this continent of many countries does think itself so superior to everyone and that's pretty misguided from what I'm seeing. Probably much more up our arses than america, surely.

Agree that achievement in education is very influenced by mindset and the European 'too cool for school' attitude holds Europe back. I blame programmes such as Hollyoaks, Glee, School of Rock etc as whilst entertaining, they promote the idea of school as a place of romance and rebellion, rather than study, which is just, in European terms, for boring people.

Perhaps we need a few adverts on tv promoting the idea that education is the route out of poverty?
There is not enough information given out to young people to sow the seed in their minds that perhaps school is a good thing. The old adage that you don't value what you get for nothing is very true. Too many people in UK do not value the free education they get. They take it for granted. Hence the numbers of pupils who take holidays in term time. (Rant over. Feel better now)

IMO this has nothing to do with genetics or any cliches about the difference between Eastern and Western cultures (tiger mothers, etc). It has everything to do with China going through a rapid transition from an agrarian to an industrial economy, and having a good education being the difference between staying a starving peasant or becoming a wealthy urbanite. I bet if you were to monitor any country going through a rapid industrialisation (e.g. 19th cenury Britain) you would find a similar phenomenon.

True in part, David IMO.

As someone smarter than me once said if you were clever in the 19th century you went to England, in the 20th Century you went to the USA & in the 21st Century, Asia (China).

As someone who grew up in HK and now has a good job in the UK I'd say that a combination of academic strength (I have a good 2:1 in a respected subject from an RG university) and creative capacity (I won awards for our university paper) mixed with able to click with the work culture was got me to where I am. And fitting in to team a is probably more important than anything else; you appoint people who will work in that particular office. I think that teamwork is taught better in Britain than it is in China. Just IMHO!

into

You would understand why creativity and independent thought were important if you'd tried teaching people straight out of a chinese school (not hk - they were usually v impressive - hard working and able to think for themselves)

Unless the answer is given to them to leanr off by heart (impressive) many had not the first clue where to start.

Sadly, on a global scale it seems ripping off other people's ideas and copying them is encouraged in china. Without good patent law (and enforcement) innovation cannot flourish.

i am not sure that this isn't a cultural issue - i had kids do my 'finish the story' worksheet, and the TA queried it when some of them hadn't finished the story as it was in the book.....

China has been a dictatorship a long long time - that alone would disencourage creativity.

And is why hk is different

High rate of mental illness and suicide I believe aS well. I suspect a lot of the more troubled ones get sent to study abroad

DH just pointed out that the average Chinese child has anything up to 6 full-time adults in their life, bossing them around and making them do homework. Maybe that has something to do with attainment at 15?