Why you shouldn't support legislation blocking internet porn

[Andrewjh]

Ed Vaizey and Claire Perry and a number of other politicians are trying to force ISPs to block adult content under the pretence of "think of the children", however this will have the opposite effect and could lead to children being exposed to far greater problems.

• Children these days are very tech savvy, especially with regard to the internet. And they need to be - the UK is the largest internet economy in the world. To succeed in the UK in the future, you'll need to know your way around a computer and around the internet from an early age.

• What happens when ISPs block sites is something called the Streisand Effect. Basically by banning it, they generate a huge amount of publicity and support for the sites. The Pirate Bay site last week got blocked in the UK, and it received traffic increases of 12 million users downloading millions of pounds worth of software, music, films and games. Blocking something increases its internet traffic, its exposure, and suddenly 30 times more people know about it than did before.

• What also happens when you block these sites is a huge amount of internet users figure out free and easy ways around the blocks. ISP's don't have the resources to stop this, and in most cases, it is impossible for them to do so. anyway. The Pirate Bay blocks can be got around within 20 seconds, and that is just googling "how do I get around pirate bay blocks".

• Many of the methods employed by users to get around the Pirate Bay blocks so they can illegally download files will also be posted as guides to get around porn blocks. These are accessible through any search engine (google, bing, yahoo).

• The problem is that tech savvy children (it only takes one to find out how from the internet or an older brother, then tell his friends, who tell their friends etc) can easily find out how to get around it. I mean it is as easily as it is to look up something for their homework, if not easier.

• The other more dangerous issue is that whilst once they've gone through those guides, they can easily find links to far darker sites which host horrific viruses, hackers, as well as references to drugs, drink and other adult content. They can also find links to anonymous chatrooms where they could meet anyone without you knowing.

• This is the danger that opt in and blocking poses. They will give you a sense of security when there is none.

• This is also based on the assumption that the block actually blocks all porn. They rarely ever do, and sites posing as sex education sites which don't get blocked get through with adult content. So you'll be under the illusion that the internet is safely blocked when it isn't.

Think of it like this. Imagine the internet is a cliff, and we are having a picnic at the top of the cliff. It's a mostly beautiful view, but if you let your guard down, you could fall off. You wouldn't let your child play near the edge. Installing the opt in system is like putting a strong looking but flimsy fence in place. You could be fooled in to thinking it was safe but left to their own devices your child, could easily fall through. We can't put a brick wall there otherwise it spoils the natural beauty of the view (the educational benefits of the internet).

So what to do? Firstly don't support legislation calling for blocks. It doesn't work, its been shown not to work in the past as well as more recently. Children can easily find a way around it, and in doing so find a far darker side of the internet.

Secondly: If you are concerned, use censoring software on your computer, but don't be content with just that. Use Browser tracking software like this - www.any-activity-monitor.com/free-browser-history-recorder.html so you can accurate tell what your child has been viewing, even if they delete it off the browser. There are also many simple, free and easy tutorials written online on how to better protect your computer and your child.

Thirdly: Take some time to talk to your child about internet use. It can be an amazing tool but it can be dangerous. They need to know that right and wrong, safe and risky, they all still apply online (something easy to forget I assure you). They'll avoid things if they know its wrong. They will be curious about things if its only blocked.

Lastly, don't be fooled by people using the "think of the children" line. It's an alarmist appeal to emotion. There is very little danger so long as you use your common sense and only allow a child a sensible amount of time on the internet. As a politics student, I have to question whether this has been saved up till now to gain support for the government after an miserable turn in recent polls.

Thanks very much for reading, I hope you'll consider your position.

Sorry NiceViper, my last comment was not directed personally at you

Have you read the posts from the technical experts above which show at the current proposals do not block porn ?

Why should those who can see that it is useless be forced to pay for something that will not protect children?

Can I ask if those who are in favour of opt-in porn access are using one of the broadband services that already offer it? And if not, why not?

NiceViper, it is possible to block porn. Do not believe the porn apologists who tell you that you can't.

I believe the techies who demonstrate the imperfections in the system as proposed and possible.

Perhaps you could describe to Empusa and Niceguy2, in light of their recent posts, exactly where they are wrong?

I don't profess to have any more technical knowledge than them, but I can tell you that I live in a country where porn is banned. I have not stumbled upon any whilst I have lived here, and if you put in a search request for something suspect, you will get a warning screen come up.

The only way to view porn here is to go overseas with a laptop, download a VPN, come back and download it [illegally] to your computer. I dare say I would notice if my 7 year-old did this.

Marie you really are living in your own little world are you not.
You can and very obviously do control what your 7 year old views when he is within your view. However any time he is not in your direct line of sight he could have access to a computer or a smart phone (They are hackable too) and then you have no control what so ever. So you are at the whim of others to some extent. In that case and as others have pointed out you need a system that works, not just slows the access down a little bit.

In 6 years time Marie if your child decided he felt as if they were gay and wanted to find out information or how to deal with his feelings, you are saying he would be banned from doing that. Same with HIV,stdi, pregnancy. All of which you hope he would ask you about, but you cannot be 100% sure he can or would want to.

Notthefullshilling, you are rather rude and ill informed. I don't live in the UK, and my point is that if they can ban porn here, then they can do it anywhere.

As for information on being gay, STI's, etc... it is just indecent images that are banned here, not information.

I may be all you say but I live in a free country that boys and girls who have not got the gift of language can use the internet to find what they want. Your 7 yea old will have to learn some pretty long and embarrising words to get his information.

How do you think images appear, you enter text to find them. If you cannot enter text because the filter does not know or in fact care if what you are looking for has images or not then that ids a information problem.

There are books, you know. Not all sex education needs to come from the internet.

This thread doen't make much sense to me. I think that there was one originally that explained why MN shouldn't back the legislation and that was argued more clearly.

For me personally, I would like porn banned and inaccesible from my computer. Nobody in our house wants to see it so i have no problems with it being banned at ISP level.

I think it would be better using exotics method where people who want to access extra stuff, or need to for work reasons, pay extra.

Littleducks: The point is not about porn per say. It is about censorship. If this turns in to a thread about the value of porn then we have missed the point. This is about freedom of thought and expression, might sound fancy full but as others have said upthread when MN is banned you will be too late to object.

The thing is, a lot of the porn out there is vile. Much of the so-called 'regular' porn features very, very young girls. I am sorry, but when it comes down to it, I have far more concern for 14 year-olds being raped to provide pictures for the internet than I do for your "freedom of thought and expression".

'something must be done!'

'here is "something" - we must do it!'

littleducks, as you're happy to have porn blocked at your ISP I'm assuming you are using an ISP that already offers that service, yes? Can I ask which one?

MarieFromStMoritz

Just because you don't know how to access adult content in the UAE it doesn't mean it can't be done.

Once the government can ban one element of the internet, it can ban dissent. That way lies dictatorship, as you ought to know because you live in one. I don't want to live in a dictatorship.

Our internet is supplied by SKY at the moment. I don't know if it blocks anything, as I haven't tested it and didn't set up the subscription, as my dh works in IT so he dealt with it when we moved. I suspect not as the TV channels are opt out??? (which i complained about)

I agree that the measure seem to have big flaws, which is why I would like exotic's method more.

Hmm. So on the one hand you're so terribly keen that porn should be blocked by default to protect your children that you support the introduction of legislation to enforce it for all ISPs despite the many issues surrounding the proposed system.

On the other hand you can't even be bothered to find out if porn is already being blocked on your Internet connection, nor can you be bothered to move your Internet connection to an ISP that offers such blocking.

That's an incredibly hypocritical interesting combination of viewpoints.

MarieFromStMoritz I don't mean to pick on you personally but it's attitude like yours which is the most scary.

Firstly you live in a country where "porn is banned". Who defines what porn is? Just what is it? A man having sex with a woman? What about soft porn where the sex is simulated? What about explicit movies such as 9.5 weeks? Is that porn? Once you allow the government to dictate what you can/cannot watch on the Internet, the fear is that it's a slippery slope. I know for example on my phone that my provider block all 'adult sites' which includes dating sites. I've been to Internet cafes which also block 'adult sites' such as single parent forums.

Secondly and more importantly as I said before there's nothing worse than living with a false sense of security. Your 7 year old may not be technically literate enough to bypass filters using a VPN but I bet if he was 15 years old, he could if he spent a few hours using Google/YouTube and were so inclined to do so. Then you'd be sat there thinking "Oh he's safe" whilst he's hidden away watching god knows what.

You admit you don't have a deep understanding of technical knowledge. Let me tell you as an IT professional that it is possible to have a block on porn for the technically illiterate and it will have a limited effect on younger less savvy children whom may otherwise be misdirected. BUT at the greater risk of older children accessing porn whilst their parents naively think they're protected.

It's all about balancing benefit versus cost. And for me the balance is wrong. There's very little benefit and a great cost. It will slow your internet down, create another point of failure, add cost to your subscription and protect very little. It'll have more holes in it than swiss cheese.

The filter is on or off. Most homes now will have more than one device which can surf the Internet. Phones, tablets, PC's, Laptops, even TV's now. How many parents will turn their restrictions off? How many will understand the implications?

Like I said earlier, this is nothing more than a media soundbite so the government can show they care. It's in reality a chocolate fireguard. How many of you would support a government mandated chocolate fireguard? The arguments for this at the moment seem to be along the lines of "But if it saves one child or ah but it must be possible....." Yes it IS possible. But it doesn't mean the proposed idea is a good one.

There are explanations higher up the thread which show that the "ban" on porn in some countries is no such thing; and I liked the phrase 'chocolate fireguard' to describe what is actually in place. There is no place known to have an effective ban on porn - or indeed any other content which a Government wishes to restrict.

The previous threads about this are linked on the first page of this thread in Empusa's post of Mon 07-May-12 00:32:16.

I think this is a terrible idea, it is the responsibility of the parent to police their childrens activities on the internet. For the Government to enforce the ISPs to do this is wrong and is infringing on the rights of citizens to do what is ultimately a legal activity and so is a removal of liberty of the citizen by the State. That is before we have even considered the practicalities which seem to suggest it won't work particulary well anyway.

Snorbs- I think that you are misunderstanding me, I don't support the current legislation. I don't want to 'protect the children' actually either, it is just something I don't want or need for the children or adults in my home. The majority of my internet surfing has shifted to my iphone and we use the broadband to stream programmes through iplayer etc. to the tv.

I think that there should be packages like exotic suggested, restricted sites x- price and y-price full access, clearly marketed like exotic suggested. I don't know what my internet provider offers anymore, there was talk of porn being blocked in 2010/2011......I don't know what the actual outcome was and the law would presumerably change that if it was passed?

This is the thread i was thinking of, it explained the issues more clearly than this thread which i found a bit confusing.

niceguy2, I keep a very close eye on what my DS is doing on the internet. I always have. And probably always will whilst he is young enough to need policing. We don't have a VPN, by the way.

And yes, probably all of those things that you listed are banned here.

Regula te note block