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Why you shouldn't support legislation blocking internet porn

899 replies

Andrewjh · 07/05/2012 00:21

Ed Vaizey and Claire Perry and a number of other politicians are trying to force ISPs to block adult content under the pretence of "think of the children", however this will have the opposite effect and could lead to children being exposed to far greater problems.

  • Children these days are very tech savvy, especially with regard to the internet. And they need to be - the UK is the largest internet economy in the world. To succeed in the UK in the future, you'll need to know your way around a computer and around the internet from an early age.

  • What happens when ISPs block sites is something called the Streisand Effect. Basically by banning it, they generate a huge amount of publicity and support for the sites. The Pirate Bay site last week got blocked in the UK, and it received traffic increases of 12 million users downloading millions of pounds worth of software, music, films and games. Blocking something increases its internet traffic, its exposure, and suddenly 30 times more people know about it than did before.

  • What also happens when you block these sites is a huge amount of internet users figure out free and easy ways around the blocks. ISP's don't have the resources to stop this, and in most cases, it is impossible for them to do so. anyway. The Pirate Bay blocks can be got around within 20 seconds, and that is just googling "how do I get around pirate bay blocks".

  • Many of the methods employed by users to get around the Pirate Bay blocks so they can illegally download files will also be posted as guides to get around porn blocks. These are accessible through any search engine (google, bing, yahoo).

  • The problem is that tech savvy children (it only takes one to find out how from the internet or an older brother, then tell his friends, who tell their friends etc) can easily find out how to get around it. I mean it is as easily as it is to look up something for their homework, if not easier.

  • The other more dangerous issue is that whilst once they've gone through those guides, they can easily find links to far darker sites which host horrific viruses, hackers, as well as references to drugs, drink and other adult content. They can also find links to anonymous chatrooms where they could meet anyone without you knowing.

  • This is the danger that opt in and blocking poses. They will give you a sense of security when there is none.

  • This is also based on the assumption that the block actually blocks all porn. They rarely ever do, and sites posing as sex education sites which don't get blocked get through with adult content. So you'll be under the illusion that the internet is safely blocked when it isn't.

Think of it like this. Imagine the internet is a cliff, and we are having a picnic at the top of the cliff. It's a mostly beautiful view, but if you let your guard down, you could fall off. You wouldn't let your child play near the edge. Installing the opt in system is like putting a strong looking but flimsy fence in place. You could be fooled in to thinking it was safe but left to their own devices your child, could easily fall through. We can't put a brick wall there otherwise it spoils the natural beauty of the view (the educational benefits of the internet).

So what to do? Firstly don't support legislation calling for blocks. It doesn't work, its been shown not to work in the past as well as more recently. Children can easily find a way around it, and in doing so find a far darker side of the internet.

Secondly: If you are concerned, use censoring software on your computer, but don't be content with just that. Use Browser tracking software like this - www.any-activity-monitor.com/free-browser-history-recorder.html so you can accurate tell what your child has been viewing, even if they delete it off the browser. There are also many simple, free and easy tutorials written online on how to better protect your computer and your child.

Thirdly: Take some time to talk to your child about internet use. It can be an amazing tool but it can be dangerous. They need to know that right and wrong, safe and risky, they all still apply online (something easy to forget I assure you). They'll avoid things if they know its wrong. They will be curious about things if its only blocked.

Lastly, don't be fooled by people using the "think of the children" line. It's an alarmist appeal to emotion. There is very little danger so long as you use your common sense and only allow a child a sensible amount of time on the internet. As a politics student, I have to question whether this has been saved up till now to gain support for the government after an miserable turn in recent polls.

Thanks very much for reading, I hope you'll consider your position.

OP posts:
Xenia · 12/05/2012 22:05

How could you force people to charge? Are you going to impose english law across the globe? Very very few people want this new censorship and as it appears technically very difficult if not impossible to implement thankfully it will fail but we all have to be very very alert to these constant threats to our freedom and for the sake of our chidlren resist them vigorously.

Starwisher · 12/05/2012 22:07

Xenia you think your protecting your children by leaving them easily vunreable to porn, I think quite the opposite.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/05/2012 22:11

Starwisher:

Tube sites haven't always existed becuae the technology to stream video is reasonably recent.

Ok, so you want all porn sites to charge/require credit card. How do you propose to make them do that?

If mumsnet wanted to make this forum available to certain members it would be very easy. I agree. But it would not be so easy if for example Uzbekistan wanted mumsnet to do this.

Ditto your website. It is very easy for YOU to make YOUR pages members only. If you didn't want your pages to be members only and the government of Uzbekistan did, what then?

Starwisher · 12/05/2012 22:14

If Uzbekistan wanted me to make my website members only I would be surprised.

Jux · 12/05/2012 22:16

Starwisher, do you really believe that no teenager could get hold of someone's credit card and get whatever they want that way? There are plenty of adults who don't go through their bills with a fine-toothed comb, and plenty of young people who have credit cards - maybe older sibling of one of your dc's friends - who won't mind using their card.

Starwisher · 12/05/2012 22:18

Of course they could but its a preventaive measure not fool proof!
Better than typing a word into google and hey presto, porn galore, no?

exoticfruits · 12/05/2012 22:20

I support the ban. I am a good parent who is also bothered about the DCs of bad parents - rather than to say 'I'm alright Jack'. If the parent won't protect them the state needs to.

Starwisher · 12/05/2012 22:22

Im shocked people have such a problem with this.

Is really that outrageous to suggest you need a credit card to see porn?

You need ID to get into a nightclub or buy alcohol do you not? Its no different.

Jux · 12/05/2012 22:22

That's why you use any of the free filters that are available to you already, Starwisher. Then having a credit card won't help.

Starwisher · 12/05/2012 22:25

Exotics it is very "Im alright Jack"

If we go down Xenia's line of thinking the goverment should no longer enforce any child to get educated as frankly its eroding the child's freedom and liberal rights.

Well some poor kids, well end up with no education at all then, won't they?

Starwisher · 12/05/2012 22:26

Yeah, except free filters only work in your own house.

ravenAK · 12/05/2012 22:30

But you still aren't getting it.

If every porn provider out there, globally, was happy to sit round a table with you & agree to make their sites pay-per-view, credit card only, then that would stymie all the teenagers out there with no access to a credit card number to feed in, yes.

They aren't going to do that. You can't make them. The Government of the UK can't make them.

If you want your dc to be as protected from unsuitable content as they can be a) download suitable filtering software, yourself, as a parent b) talk to them about how they might see unsuitable content outside of your house & how they might react c) don't provide them with a mobile that can get online.

The Government cannot sort this one out for you.

Jux · 12/05/2012 22:34
amillionyears · 12/05/2012 22:36

Xenia
"Proper libertarians want parents to be free to protect their children as they wish.The default position should be state freedom not censorship"
She may protect her own children, who knows.But she does not care about other peoples children.She does not care if other parents do not "protect" their children.She just does not care.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/05/2012 22:36

What ravenAK said.

I chose Uzbekistan at random. The point is governments cannot control the owners of websites taht are not physically located in that country.

amillionyears · 12/05/2012 22:37

starwisher, just the words i have been thinking.Xenia is a case of "Im alright Jack".

Starwisher · 12/05/2012 22:38

Its attitudes like this which make society stagnate. How many people in history have said things are impossible, yet proved everyone wrong and changed the world for the better.

Your attitude of: You currently cannot do this, which means you never do this is such a defeatist attuide, and it means things will never improve for society.

I want to provide my dc with mobiles when they are old enough. Why should they miss out on all the wonderful things of the internet just because nobody can be arsed to sort this out?

amillionyears · 12/05/2012 22:40

And no food, abused, homeless,etc etc etc

Im actually feeling quite sick.

Starwisher · 12/05/2012 22:43

By the way if it so impossible for govement to control websites then why are child porn sites taken down?

Why are webites promoting terroisim banned?

Why is websites such as how to make bombs banned?

Why has the goverment made it illegal to download free movies and music?

Its ridiculous to say the goverment has its hands tied and it "can't help you".If it wants to control aspects of the internet it obviously can.

TiggyD · 12/05/2012 22:43

Pirate Bay is totally blocked. Except you can get into it in seconds with a google search.
Blocking access to 5 million porn sites should be a doddle.

ravenAK · 12/05/2012 22:47

'You currently cannot do this, which means you never do this' isn't quite how it is.

It's more that: organisation A comes up with a method of blocking web traffic. B find a way round it.

& repeat, & repeat...

At what point do you imagine all of B will go: 'Yeah, OK, we can't find a way round that one. Bugger. Best switch off our computers & head off out for some healthy fresh air & exercise.'

The smart phones thing is a bit irrelevant tbh. I can sit here now saying 'Well I wouldn't give my dc one & frankly I think it's careless parenting' - but by the time my eldest is in secondary school they'll probably be giving 'em away at petrol stations.

The internet evolves. That's the point.

amillionyears · 12/05/2012 22:48

Ive had an even worse thought

ravenAK · 12/05/2012 22:50

Taking down websites is easy.

What you can't control is the individual or organisation concerned setting a new site up - with near identical cached content.

So it's a bit fallacious to talk of 'banning' sites.

Starwisher · 12/05/2012 22:54

raven

We are talking about CHILDREN not looking at porn.

Not adults.If an adult needs to spend their time breaking into xhamster then that's very sad, but up to them.

Its unlikely a 10 year old boy wanting to know what sex means is will be breaking down firewalls and hacking into redtube

All I want is that if he gets curious about sex he is not met with some graphic image that could be distrubing

Starwisher · 12/05/2012 22:55

amillion

What was your thought

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