Poor boy in the news

[CuttedUpPear]

I feel so shocked and saddened by the news today about the poor teenage boy in London who was killed by the Congolese people who thought he was a witch.

The announcement on the radio was horrific. I actually cried (which was a bit inconvenient as I was up as tree at the time (for work)).

I won't go into the description but it was the stuff of horror films, worse.
I'm finding this too terrible and have rushed to turn off the radio every news bulletin today, especially when my DS got home from school.

What a tragic thing to happen, these people, where are their minds?

Victoria Climbie was failed by the SW's and every other professional that she came into contact with. It was her death that inspired the 2004 Children Act.

There has just been new private fostering laws put in place. I don't think that they go far enough for children from other countries, as this case shows.

We need the new law that has been proposed, making it illegal to accuse a child of witchcraft etc.

It is known what these practices entail and to much is allowed to happen before it becomes a Child Protection issue.

There have been deaths of babies and toddlers being force fed, this also needs to be addressed.

no don't need a new law,just need to robustly enforce existing legislation
pasing new law is onerous and slow and wont necessarily address this

This story really got to me as well. The poor poor boy and what he must have gone through. The surviving siblings as well...how can the family move on with their lives after such a terrible thing? I think the sentencing is on Monday - I anticipate long long sentences for both - not sure of the legal precedents but would the judge be likely to consider a whole-life tariff?

birdsgottafly I really don't see how legislation could have helped Kristy. He was here for such a short time. Unless things are reported to the authorities, they don't have psychic powers to work out whenever a child is in danger. Neighbours heard chanting, but nothing to arouse suspicions that a child was being abused.

Don't get me wrong, I know this goes on in the UK, to British children who are possibly known to the authorities. But in Kristy's case, really I can't see how anything more could have been done.

If when he rang his father up begging him to bring him home, his dad had called the police and asked them to check up on Kristy until he (the dad) got there, things might have turned out differently. But he said he trusted his daughter's boyfriend and thought he "wouldn't cross the line" (another direct quote)

I think the father failed to act sufficiently in this case I'm afraid. When paramedics reached Kristy it was too late, that was the first time the authorities even knew there was a problem.

head fairy i saw the dad on the bbc being interviewed at lunchtime. 'wouldn't cross the line' to me implies that he wasn't sure of the boyfriend. What line? or maybe it is the translation.

Headfairy, it sounds like you have something to do with the content of the 6 pm news. If so, and it's of any use, my 10 yo DS was a bit distressed at the content. It was the pictures of the hammer and knife and bath, mention of witchcraft and his sister.

Alemci did you see the bit where he said he didn't call the police because it wasn't him that had a problem, it was Eric (the murderer) who had a problem with Kristy and he should have called the police. WTF??? Have you ever heard of a murderer calling the police before he killed his victim to advise them he had a problem?

squirted if you or your dd were upset by anything do make a complaint. It was viewed by the programme editor before transmission, and he thought it was ok on the grounds of taste and decency, but obviously sometimes what might be acceptible for one person may not be for another person. As I've said up thread, it's hard when you become accustomed to seeing images like that sometimes judgement can be a little out. Broadcasters need to be guided by their viewers but they'll only know if you find something upsetting if you report it.

btw, I don't have any influence on the content of the news, you do :)

sorry but I think this whole thing is so horrific, that it has too be reported and talked about, we have to be aware that this happens.
moaning about the news and the watershed is another story.

yes headfairy. it is definitely all a bit strange. do you think Kristys parents thought his son was 'possessed' and that was why he was sent over to the sisters? alarm bells are ringing or am I just cynical.

sorry their son

The private fostering law puts the emphasis on the LA to make sure that any children living with anyone other than close birth family are safe and well.

This should apply to all children coming into the country who are not with their parents.

In certain areas of the country this sort of practice is common, there needs to be a campaign to inform the public of the danger towards children and hopefully people will respond if they hear chanting etc.

Likewise if witchcraft is mentioned this should be taken seriously,if the law does not cover it and the SW applies for an EPO, the judge will not grant it,sowe need policy on this.

Accussing a child of being possessed needs to be in the UK.

SW's have been asking for extended policies and laws around using food as a punishment, which is common in some cultures.

Beating demons out of children is a practice ingrained in some parts of the world and is brought into the UK, like female circumcision, we need the polices to make those that stay silent personally accountable.

Headfairy- just to add apparently the local church knew of the children's plight, as is the case in V Climbies and other children who have turned up to A&E which don't reach the news.

We need to make religious leaders culpable, if they don't report injuries, in serious abuse cases (under the guise of excorcism).

no, really culpable of what?

how would one prove direct involvement or instruction or being complicit?
however odious or misplaced an ideological belief or faith is,it's going to be bloody hard to directly prove an individual pastor or church incited or contributed to such brutality

Gotta go to sleep now, but alemci apparently the mother believed in the concept of possession and witchcraft, though I don't know what she thought in this case. She declined to be interviewed. I think the father was less of a believer, but as it was so ingrained in his culture it may have been less shocking for him to hear someone suggest his son was possessed by evil spirits.

deeply saddening and shocking. Cant believe this was actually real and happened..
I cry lots over people being murdered (softy me) and I hate reading things about people being chased then killed as I think about the fear that they must have felt before dying.

But this poor poor boy, He must have gone through absolute hell...

Words actually fail me.

Finally he is at peace now.

Will these people get treatment? They are sadistic killers cloaked in religious fervor. No matter what your belief system, surely harming or killing anothe 'child of your own god' must be a no-no.

There was a case near here a few years back when an african woman broke into the swimming baths and drowned her two children for similar reasons. I shudder every week when I have to walk past the water to get to the gym and see it full of tiny children and babies having their swimming classes.

"no, really culpable of what?"

Firstly, silence, every profesional has to report any suspicions that a child is being mistreated. The same applies in most cases, such as main stream churches, a religious leader, Vicar, Priest etc can break silence if a child is at risk, so can counsellors.

This policy can be extended to fringe churches, some childrenare still taken to church for exorcism whilststill recovering from beatings, this now has tobe put in leglislation.

The public and posters on here is aware of this case, but SW's are dealing with lesser cases, daily.

Female circumcision has been cut down on, because the law got tougher on it.

Churches in the UK should not be advocating beating children with objects and get away with it,under the law, as they can now.

There are gaps and any CP SW will tell you this and they can be filled, so this isn't happening to the level that it is. This was first discussd after the death of V Climbie, we shouldn't be still just discussing it, 12 years later.

In certain areas this practice needs to be campaigned against, with posters etc, in the same way that DV is addressed.

It isn't hard to prove that the church was complaicent, when the hed of the church is visiting the children at home and seeing their injuries.

You find that once an suspision is raised,others come forward, to testify, it starts to at least break a cycle of behaviour and belief.

I think the problem is that everyone is so terrified of doing anything or speaking out in case they are branded with the R word. I think was particularly the case with Victoria. Trying to understand the culture is probably flung about by social services.

perhaps we do need people to spy in the churches in the same way that Channel 4 went undercover in the Mosques when children were being mistreated. absolutely awful.

this is shocking and disgusting. you cant even imagine how he must of felt.

i just entered this discussion to bring some of the issues in some muslim communities in to the debate.

In islam some do believe in posession and black magic, and when they see kids having problems for some people this is the first thing they think of and they go to some fake sheikhs who charge extortionate amounts and do nothing.

Although I have not heard of beatings being common amongst these sheikhs, i have heard of other things, like sexual abuse taking place, with male sheikhs putting their hands on female patients chest or other areas, or asking them to take of hijab and clothes etc, all of which is obviously not allowed in islam as a woman cant be touched by a non relative male, but due to the trust people place in these sheikhs and the perception that they are more knowledgable women and their families go along with it. and pay for the privilidge.
I have, gladly heard of a case where one of these so called sheikhs has been prosecuted for abuse.

I would like to say to anyone lurking on this thread that does believe in black magic, fair enough that is your belief, but please go with your family member if they are having treatment for this stuff, and dont loose your common sense, if something would be wrong in a normal situation, it is wrong in this situation. if you are uncomfortable about what is taking place, dont worry about any pressure or scare mongering, take your family member out of that situation, and do some research yourself, or find another practitioner whose methods you are comfortable with.

I dont know about congalese witch craft, but islamicaly there is no need for anyone to touch the patient, or take their used clothes, personal objects etc all they should do is pray. and if they are serious about their work they will not be charging extortionate amounts, around £40 donation is usual.

I know i will probably get flamed for this post. The aim is to make people who believe in these things think about what is happening and realise that methods such as beating and torture to stop posession is just sick and twisted, and wont help anything.

absolutely Nailak. I believe in Black Magic and i think in this case it is being interwoven with christianity. I suppose in the Congo they have Witch Doctors. How can beating someone and murdering them be christian and Christ like?

I always think in relgious circles you should do something for free to help people not be making money out of their suffering.

In our church people pray for each other which is the way it should be but no one expects payment.

it is quite scary the way adults exert power over vulnerable children. This has happened in the Catholic faith in the boys boarding schools and the Magdalen Nurseries. why are people so cruel to their own flesh and blood. This woman was Christy's sister or do you think she was terrified of the BF?

Although part of social work values is respecting cultural practices, child protection should trump that, if the practice is in anyway abusive.

It is always difficult when dealing with religion, but it is about weighing up the birth family rights and the childs right to fit in with the birth family.

What is needed is firmer guidence on these matters,so at least the ability to place the child on a plan is available,if possible abuse is suspected. This will not remove all of the possible emotional abuse, but would cut down on the overall effect.

When policies have been decided on, a campaign along the lines of the anti DV campaign could be put into effect.

Life sentences - min 30 and 25 years respectively.

That phrase the father used, thinking the BF wouldn't cross the line, makes me suspicious that the children had been sent in order to be exorcised, that the father knew about it and had either ordered it or agreed to it when pressed by the BF, and that everything else he said, about not thinking Kristy was in distress, etc., when he talked on the phone, was either wishful thinking on his part or an attempt with the benefit of hindsight to cover his own sorry arse.

I hope the long sentences have been publicised in Congo and neighbouring places.

I hope the police in France and Britain will take another look at the father in this particular case. When it comes to this sort of superstition, I think the job of police and SWs is extremely difficult because people who believe this, victims who are caught up in it, and witnesses who know this sort of abuse is going on are a lot more terrified of the witch doctors than they are of any western authorities. It is time to change that.

I think policies should involve first and foremost enforcement of the law of the UK, and to heck with respecting the family culture.

In Scandinavia, grisly reports of fgm cases have made headlines for months, with nothing much left to the imagination, and not much effort made to spare those with delicate constitutions. The result has been public revulsion and a lot of pressure to end the practice. Health and welfare workers have carried the campaign into immigrant communities, with concerted public education campaigns and the law has cracked down on parents.

I think withholding details of horrible murders like these and trying not to shock people too much just has the effect of sanitising the whole business and sending the message that it wasn't really that bad. People should be shocked. Pussyfooting around the issues of culture and respect means the law gets cast aside.