14yr old girl tasered in the groin after holding hands up in surrender (US) Shocking and upsetting!

[YNK]

www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/dec/15/philadephia-police-taser-girl-video

This smacks of mysogeny as well as brutality. I hope he is brought to justice.

I would hate to think this is how we want 'justice' to be upheld anywhere in the world!

Sorry www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/dec/15/philadephia-police-taser-girl-video,

Before I even clicked on the link I knew it wasn't going to be a white girl -endemic brutality and racism.

Gosh, Yes. In my horror at the incident it did not at first register that the girl was not white.

Rascist, masoginistic sadistic brutality shown towards a child.

Shamelessly bumping my own thread here, but I can't believe MN'rs don't have a view on this.
I did toy with putting this in the femist section.

It's horrific but I'm not sure if it's mysoginy, there are numerous incidents of police brutality on males in the U.S. and most of the videos I've seen in the past the victims have been male.

So it is automatically a racist incident she is not white? Really? If it had been a black officer and a white girl would there be cries of racism .... I think not....

Maybe the officer was too quick to use the taser but the full facts have not been made available.

In the groin though?? In the fucking groin? I cant imagine how painful that must be!

WTAF is that about?

I'm not sure about training protocols but surely that's not a valid target?

I have no idea about training potocols, nor do you. So any arguments we put forward on that would be pure speculation. for all I know the protocol could be to aim for the thigh.
I don't have any idea about the accuracy of shooting a taser either.So once again I'm not going to speculate.
However I don't think it's automatically a sexist/misogyny issue because the victim was female. I'd need more evidence or background information before reaching that conclusion.
All I'm seeing is a horrific over-reaction from the police which should be classed as police brutality.
However it's the type of over-reaction which I've seen many times where more often than not the victim is male.

So not more shocking that the victim is a child ,then?
Have we become so desensitised that this does not even raise an eyebrow?

where has anybody said it's not more shocking that the victim is a child or that it doesn't raise an eye-brow.
You raised the issue of sexism, some agreed and some didn't. Nobody at any point has said that it's not more shocking that it's a child

YNK

you seem to be looking for a reason to be offended.

Well firstly I have to say that the girl was clearly not complying with the officer.

If she wasn't wrestling with him, he'd have never had to get his taser out in the first place.

Yes it appears she did hold her hands up but literally a split second before he tasers her, so fast that the fact she put her hands up barely registered given he was fighting with her moments ago.

In fact, if I were him and struggling with the girl at close quarter like that, I'd be shitting bricks she'd go for my gun or taser. That may explain why he decided to bring it to a head quickly to stop him or anyone else getting hurt.

He probably wasn't aiming for the groin but hey, that's what happens when you have to fire a weapon. You don't always hit the target you intend.

To be honest I've seen far worse on Youtube and everytime I have to wonder why people think it's ok for someone to fight with the police but freak out when they get tasered?

Whenever I've spoken to the police (and i've even been arrested), I've always been polite, respectful and I've never been pepper sprayed, truncheoned or tasered. Oh I'm not white either in case someone thinks its a race thing.

I'm shocked that you all think this is acceptable. It doesn't seem obvious to me that there is any public order offence being commited here!

This is a young school child compelete with backpack/schoolbag.

She is clearly offering surrender before being tasered.

If this was happening at secondary schools near you would you be in agreement? Even if it was a white boy and not obviously aimed at the groin would you be happy if it was your child/a friends child?

Mn'rs I am truely shocked that this does not move you in the way it moved me!

I am pretty shocked by it, it seems a huge overreaction if nothing else. On the clip it says the policeman had pushed her up against the car first, which would cause a lot of people to push back. There are also a number of security "heavies" who appear just after he has tasered her. I find it hard to believe that between them and the policeman, they really needed to taser a 14-year-old girl who was showing no signs of violence until he shoved her up against the car.

It also says she was arrested for swearing, and for "provoking a crowd of students" whatever that means. Which does read as though she was tasered for mouthing off a bit...

I may be biased by having read a very depressing article not long ago about how many US schools are now bringing in their "own" police to be based in the school and to enforce school discipline - and the extraordinarily draconian punishments and methods of enforcement that had been used in several cases for what would be considered in the UK at least as very minor or petty breaking of school rules (can't remember where I read it sorry, may have been Sunday Times?).

If this was your 14yr old daughter would you be happy with this response?

"I'm shocked that you all think this is acceptable. "

hahahaha ffs.
there's one person on this thread who thinks it was acceptable. they've put forward a cogent argument but one I wholly disagree with. Everyone else has condemned it but you keep jumping from argument to argument looking for some window to take the moral high-ground.
Most people have said it's unacceptable but that your claims of sexism are unsubstantiated.
So you've moved on to trying to insinuate that everyone else has said that tasering children is fine and we're all monsters for accepting this as the norm but you are the morally superior being because you are so horrified by it.
pick an argument, formulate it and debate it.

You're criticizing the legendary "Mumsnet Flail", mq?

When you've conquered that, I've got some windmills need teaching a lesson.

When I said you all, I was refering to the silent majority not the people who have commented, mq.
I'm sorry that you are offended by this thread.

Unfortunately she may be a child but you don't know if she was known to the police. You don't know that if this was the fifth call the police have had aout this girl, you don't know if she was on drugs or drunk .... The full facts have to been reported.

As for the comment that it is a young child with a school backpack ... So what. James buglers killers probably had Lego and a lolly pop in their pockets. Sadly kids even under ten can be seen to be breaking the law in all sorts of ways which were nice associated with older people ..... Such as beng off their face in their face in school. It happens.

Don't believe everything that is in the media.

And this happened months ago ....

It's not about whether it's 'acceptable' but whether it's 'understandable'.

Noone wants to see a 14yr old child or in fact any child tasered.

But we can all sit here and rewind the video, pause it, watch it frame by frame.

The police officer is the one who was there. On his own, wrestling with a girl who for whatever reason was clearly resisting arrest.

Now we don't know the full situation, maybe he was fearful the crowd may turn on him? Maybe like I said above, he feared she may go for his gun. Maybe he feared she'd hit him. We can only guess. My point is that in that context i can understand why he may have chosen to deploy his taser. Personally I wouldn't have done but he chose to and he was johnny on the spot.

We have time to sit here and criticise and take apart his actions. He had about 3 seconds, if that to decide what to do.

I'm sure his actions will have been investigated and he'd face disciplinary actions if found to be disproportionate.

"You're criticizing the legendary "Mumsnet Flail", mq?"

I know, I know, I shouldn't criticise such time honoured traditions.

"When I said you all, I was refering to the silent majority not the people who have commented, mq."
So now you're assigning view-points to those who haven't even commented and are criticising them based on the opinions which you have made up and attributed to them?
maybe they haven't commented because they have nothing to add. I wouldn't have commented unless the point about sexism had been introduced because I don't see the point in adding another "that's horrific/disgusting etc." post to a thread which has a fairly unanimous view.

"I'm sorry that you are offended by this thread."
yep it's definitely me who is looking for something to be offended by here, certainly not the person who is criticising theoretical mumsnetters for opinions which they haven't expressed.

pure misogyny

Feminist 101 for mq:

The power of the military, the police force, and the court system in the U.S are firmly in the hands of men.

Sociologists therefore conclude that women are a caste of their own. In fact they are referred to as a "minority" group to reflect how little economic and political and military power they have (even though women are clearly not a minority).

Given this, it is completely unacceptable for a member of the dominant caste (males) to use force to violate any member of the subordinate group.

Except... that we all know that men retain their power through violence. That without institutionalized male violence towards women, men could not actually hold onto their power.

And so every time any man harms a woman, it is political.

Just like every time a white man harms a black man, it is political, or should be assumed to be political, until proven otherwize.

Eh!?!?

So just how am i retaining my 'power' over women through violence? Or are you accusing me of beating my fiancee whenever I don't get my own way?

The next time I vote (which is the way i exercise my 'power'), does this mean I am using force? If so, shouldn't the fact women can vote also mean they are exercising force on men also?

And if a black man beats a white guy up, should that be guilty until proven innocent as well?

I don't think I've ever read a more ridiculous post and that includes them from some of my usual sparring partners.

we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point sakura.