Send them to Hull: London to house it's homeless up north

[boredandrestless]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103298/Send-Hull-London-house-homeless-north-save-money-rent.html

Just seen this on a friend's facebook feed. What do other's think of this?

I agree with the idea although I don't think it necessarily has to be Hull, just somewhere where the cost of housing workless families is cheaper than in London. If they don't work and are reliant on benefits then they should live where the taxpayer can afford for them to live, not where they fancy living.

Nobody cries a tear for working families who are not entitled to benefits but have to move if the situation arises. They are just expected to get on with it. Thousands do it every year and it is just a part of life.

Also, if workless households move out of London then it will free up housing for working people who currently have to commute from the suburbs/home counties. There is no universal right to live in London, especially if you are reliant on the work of others to pay your way.

Orwellian the problem is that if dh and I (home owners, decent salary) were to move, we would sell our home and buy another one/rent something roughly the same sort of standard as I have now because I would have choice in the matter and could balance the pros and cons of a move, balance increase in slary compared wiht higher housing costs in new area and so on. For someone in social housing to move it means giving up their house and usually ending up right down at the bottom of the lists in their new area, starting out in temporary accommodation and clawing their way back up to a decent house. Plus, while this may not apply to everyone since actually most people who claim housing benefit are in work, quite often in areas of hugh unemployment you have families who stay close together and live near each other. This is often vital in people actually being able to work as they have their mum to do the childcare. It you cart them off to a different area, even if they do find a job and a decent home they might not be able to afford the childcare (yes they will qualify for help through tax credits but that doesn't pay all of it). So yes, thousands of people do move for work but they do so with some choice in the matter.

The recent Guardian article was talking about people being moved out of Westminster to Outer London who might then have to move all the way out to (say) Newcastle when the next round of benefit caps came in next year. The woman from the charity trying to help them was urging them to think about moving in one fell swoop now, rather than put their children through two upheavals in three years.

This is nothing new in the past this country has shipped children in care to Australia and New Zealand so that it didn't have to foot the bill.

Lucky them. I like Hull (although perhaps not Bransholme which I guess is where they'd end up). Shame it's always trotted out in such derogatory terms though - it's a great city with great people.

As for moving away from what you know. So what? People do it all the time, it's no big deal.

This is simply the logical conclusion of housing benefit caps. Why stop at Outer London, Essex, areas which are still expensive relative to the rest of the country? Its a trade off between paying more in housing benefit to house the poor in London, or more in out of work benefits to house them in the cheapest areas. I don't pretend to have the answer. But I do know that anyone who comments and wants to not be laughed at needs to be aware that job opportunities are much, much better in the capital. The idea that people who are moved from Inner London to Hull would be beginning a great new opportunity is laughably ridiculous. Such people would be moving away from the few advancement prospects they have. If you want to advocate putting the poor in the cheapest areas, fine. As long as you admit and accept that by doing so, you greatly increase the chance they'll be jobless. And let's not pretend that none of the people who fall foul of the housing benefit cap are employed, either.

Indith I don't think this will be an issue for people in social housing, as they generally have secure tenancies and their rent is well within housing benefit caps.

Lastly, could we please not have any more posts from people talking about how they moved for work and it went fine so everyone else can do it? That's only relevant if you moved away from the area with the highest concentration of jobs, to one with the highest unemployment rates. Otherwise, your experience is irrelevant.

"You don't think the use of 'Hull' in the article is poetic licence? The sentence says 'could be' as far away as Hull which is pretty vague and suggests the reporter was looking for somewhere synonymous with 'back end of beyond' to get a shock response. 'Could be' as far away as Hull. 'Could be' as close as Croydon."

Generally a lot of the areas with cheaper housing are be areas with less work. There is a housing shortage NATIONWIDE so a lot of the displaced will end up in EXPENSIVE temporary accommodation. A lot of areas are struggling to cope with their own homeless let alone those displaced from expensive areas. I know Plymouth is, being homeless last year myself. The hostel for families was full and I had to go into a b and b. The advisor at shelter said she had never known it so bad.

"But I do know that anyone who comments and wants to not be laughed at needs to be aware that job opportunities are much, much better in the capital. The idea that people who are moved from Inner London to Hull would be beginning a great new opportunity is laughably ridiculous."-Flangelina Ballerina,

If that is the case, why haven't they got a job in London in all the time they have been living here? If there are so many jobs in London then surely they could have found something by now?

Also, if they have no intention of working, then it makes no difference if they are in Hull except that it is cheaper on the taxpayer. They can be workless in Hull where they would get much more value for money in terms of housing (bigger house, cheaper cost of living etc) than in London.

How can you incentivise people to work if you can get more/the same by not working? There are families in my kids school who are actually better off than us even though they do not work (no disabilities) because they don't pay tax on their benefits and are entitled to so many satellite benefits and live in social housing so pay less rent for a bigger place.

Surely there has to be some reward for hard work otherwise we might as well all go on benefits.

I'll admit I'm looking at this from the perspective on living in Hull. It has a lot going for it (fab parks, free museums and art gallery, free school hol activities, etc) , but also a lot of poverty, one of the highest unemployment rates, crime rates, etc. As another poster has said moving them to Hull may save in housing benefit (although I understand they would be in private rented, which is more expensive than social housing whichever town you are in) they will lose in long term unemployment benefits.

Why not send them here, sure we'll be next (Newport), similar sort of area. Not sure if being in Wales prevents that; seems to vary how that works, but I imagine feelings in Hull are similar to those I have about this.

After all why not push OUR housing costs up? Place extra demand on the already-stretched social services/ school places/ elderly and LD care / / GP surgeries / council waiting lists?

Why should people paying council tax here get the services after all? Just becuase we have a massive unemployment issue and 30k n the housing list, we can absorb other place's problems and offer those refugee families some kind of life aims.

or not, as the case may be.

Why are people so willing to penalise the poor working people here or in Hull? it's nigh on impossible to find housing at LHA rates wherever you are, it will just mean that the problem shifts to the residents already there (or here) instead.

It's NOT all about the people being moved 9though I have huge sympathy there as well); why forget the people already struggling to live in these areas? problems with school places etc are NOT exclusive to London.

Why pretend needing help with housing means you are unemployed or choosing that? carers are included in this (hope the London SSD budget can cover the loss of help...), disabled people.... moving those away from their support networks and hospitals they have used for perhaps many years. Shelter stats show that only 20% of people claiming HB are registered unemployed; rest are working poor, carers, disabled, elderly. All groups HUGELY damaged by this move.

boredand no not cheaper than council wherever you are.

Soon the measure for pricing social housing means that in London rents will exceed housing benefit. My friend recently had a letter confirming this. Only applies to new tenants but surely will force a form of social clearance.

Oh and we moved away for work and guess what? When the boys were diagnosed with autism soon afterwards it turned into a lonely hellish nightmare with no support network and both of us ending up on anti depressants and no childcare support to help me continue with my career (had we been home Mum would have helped).

Fab that!

I know I am doing multiple posting now but don;t care. Just to make it clear WE ARE a working family, DH works long hours for himself, but as he has set up for himself we are also low income so part reliant on help.

So DH is a worthy taxpayer and I am a claiming scum carer.

Mum however says you can move her because she doesn't like caring for Grandad (he was an abusive father to her) but SSD can;t be arsed to help so if it lets her off brilliant, his care only costs 4 times her monthly rent, a saving for sure! (she does not get HB and Dad is working but she's forever hopeful)

WELL as a Hull resident can you please all stay where you are.
Yes rent is cheaper, if you can find a house. Hull is basically a huge council estate
Employment is really high and we have just lost quite a few big employers.
Resources are stretched, we have a crumbling general hospital, a small maternity unit which covers a huge area, nearest maternity units are miles away.
As per the rest of the country we have funding cuts aplenty.

But on the flip side Hull is a great place

Exactly Debs.

There is a reason why our cheap areas are cheap. You can get a 4 bed rented here in a lovely area for £750pcm; the reason for that is jobs pay so much less, in the somewhat unlikely scenario you can find one.

The schools and other facilities already cope with the extra effects of high unemployment and poverty.

I like it here but some kind of affordable housing utopia we are not!

I have lived in Hull all my life but to start sending people here is just stupid, don't these politicians read the news, or are they hoping that the new siemens plant will create some new jobs here, but as previously stated there are over 80 people applying for 1 job and when you take into account the amount of shops that have closed down here and also the council got rid of lots of employees last year (some of which were frightened into taking reduncancy). If you walk down streets like holderness or hessle road it is just like a derelict town.

I am lucky I do work full time and yes I do live on a council estate but when adding how many people work down my street there are 13 houses and out of that 5 houses have a least one person working (that includes me). We have youths out till all hours drinking and kicking footballs into cars and house windows and when challenged tell you were to go. The Police visit our next door neighbour at least 3 times a day.

Yes we have parks and a good football stadium, museums but if you look in the paper recently we can't even bury the right person or have idiots that all they do all day is complain about what other people write on facebook in their own time. Even recently East Park that had been totally refubished a couple of years ago had been vandalised by youths with nothing better to do and even the animal park that they created was broken into.

Parts of Hull now have been taken over by people from other countries (Spring Bank and Princess Avenue).

I know this seems to be a rant but for god sake I don't think that Hull can take anymore homeless or unemployed people. If I won the lottery tonight the first thing I would do is move out of Hull to somewhere more decent (but we can all dream can't we).

This is a rant of behalf of someone who already lives in Hull.

Im suprised the Tories arent planning to send them to Scotland then let Scotland go independnat but with hordes of school/NHS places to find.
Or am I giving Dave ideas?

totally agree with orwelian and looks forward to a time when I can afford to have a child and live in central london. It will be great if those that have not worked for 5 years and probably won't again, free accommodating for those that work in c London.

Kal what about prison ships?

Plus Points to Hull - it's dirt cheap, and I mean dirt cheap to live here fairly expensive one bed flat near center of town - £370 pcm, I have afriend who rents a crappy two bed flat for £50 a week, 3 bed council house with garage £73 per week. Really good hospital care.

Negatives - High unemployment, LOTS of social problems, race relations are in their infancy really, high teenage pregnancy rate even for the UK, low attainement at school - we struggle to get people through 5 GCSE's A-C here inc English and maths, 10 years ago it was 15% it's risen since to about 45% but it's still shocking.

Hull is poor - doesn't it strike you as odd that you move people away from wealthy boroughs that can afford to provide services for additional needs into areas where there is a lot of need and less money to provide for that need? Sounds like there will be some lovelly boroughs in London who have to pay for sweet FA and have the ability to cut their council tax as socail need will fall, while you have very poor areas without much money forced to stretch budgets ever thinner to try to help even more people in need. DODGEY!!!!!

Kal they used to have them in Victorian times, in kent estuary I think. When prisons were full they used moored ships instead. This is obviously a joke btw.

I've always moved to where I could get work - it wouldn't occur to me to try and stay somewhere if I couldn't get work, however I appreciate the problem with ghettoization..

on the third hand (inbred where I'm from.. probably could do with some fresh blood) I don't quite see how people can complain about the south having all the money spent on it and being over-crowded, yet also complain when it's suggested that some people with no ties to the south get spread around.

I don't know what to do. I do think that it's absolutely insane for people to stay in London where everything is more expensive - there are minimum wage jobs everywhere so why on earth search for one in such an over-crowded place.

Thing is chunky would you move to where you knew there was very little work?

Few points Orwellian:

1. Where did you get the idea that the only people being moved would be people who've never worked at all?

1. Even if we're talking only about people who've never worked in London, they still have less chance of finding work in an area where its harder to get a job.

3.'If there are so many jobs in London, then surely they could have found one by now' nope, there aren't enough jobs to go round in London either. Its just that there's more than there are in Hull. Your point would only work if there were a surplus of jobs in London. There aren't. Its still hard to find work there- the advantage is that it isn't as hard as it is elsewhere.

Ultimately, there's a logic to the idea that if people are never ever going to find work, local employment opportunities aren't relevant to the issue of where they should live. I'm ok with that point. But to pretend that people don't have the best chance of work in London, unless they have a particular and unusual skillset, is plain and simple denial.

Ha I have never seen so many people on one thread on MN admitting they live or have lived in Hull!

Our hospital's maternity unit (well full hospital really) is WAY too small! Lots of people I know having babies in the last year or two have been shipped via ambulance to Middlesborough, Doncaster, etc as there have been no cots/beds available for them and their babies. 2 of these that I know were premie babies too.

My son is autistic. The wait for a diagnosis in Hull is 3 years+ from going to see the GP to getting a letter with diagnosis on. It took us 3 yrs for this, we were then discharged.

The point made about shipping people out to places with low housing costs, areas that are already stretched by budget cuts and high need is a good one. I highly doubt the tories will be plowing extra resources to these places as well as the homeless.

The real problem is lack of affordable housing, and that should be tackled rather than moving people around like pawns on a board.