I think we should give the Falkland Islands back

[Haziedoll]

I don't understand what our claim on the islands is. From what I have read our argument for retaining the islands is that most of the islanders are of British heritage, well they would be wouldn't they considering the islands are so remote.

We gave Hong Kong back so what's the difference with the Falklands?

David Cameron accused Argentina of colonialism, from where I'm sitting it looks as if Britain are guilty of that, holding onto islands for no legitimate reason, guilty of provocation by sending Prince William and a warship out to the area.

Have I missed the point? Why do you think
we should retain the islands?

What I'm trying to get at is the human nature aspect to this. It's human nature to be territorial or feel threatened or put out if another country is seen to have transgressed, even though international law has not been broken. If the Spanish or Argentines occupied the Isle od Man I think the British would have occassion to feel resentful. Likewise the Argentines from time time feel resentful at the British, whether of not that is wise or logical - they just do - because of the proximity. These feelings will probably blow over, and then again they might return. I see no reason to demonise the Argentines because of how they feel. It seems normal to me.

The Falklands are 300-400 miles from the Argentinian coastline and over 1000 miles from Buenos Aires. The Isle of Man is only about 40 miles out. The Argentinians feeling territorial about something that is so far away and has been part of another country since 1833 is rather like us asking the USA if we can have Virginia back.

Yeah sorry Animation, but the example you give isn't at all comparable. Not just for the reasons CES gives, but also because Argentina itself was being settled by Europeans at a similar time to the Falklands. I wouldn't agree with you even if you were talking about the indigenous peoples of Argentina, but their president's ancestors quite possibly didn't arrive until the same time as or after the Falklands were settled. Whereas the British have been in Britain for a while. As far as I'm aware, the descendants of people who were actually living in Argentina at the time Europeans came to the Falklands haven't said anything on the subject.

Nobody is disputing that some Argentines feel an entitlement to the Falklands. its just that they don't have a single valid argument in their favour, and have no moral right to feel as they do.

I wonder if anyone else noticed the president's press conference calling for peace in front of a map with the Falklands in Argentine national colours? Hypocrite.

Good points Flangelina and Cogita.

I think the Falkland Islanders need a huge PR campaign to explain these facts to others in Britain (and Hilary Clinton) who seem a little unaware of the geography and history.

I was going to make the same point as Cogito - its not like the Isle of Man its like Iceland. Rekjavik is about the same distance from London as Stanley is from Buenos Aires. Do we object that the Danes got there first?

What made me laugh in the president's speech this morning was the accusation that the UK was 'militarising' the South Atlantic. Basis for this seemingly that we've sent the Falklands one helicopter-flying prince and one of our destroyers for a tootle round the coast. She's obviously forgotten, but the Falklands was all peace & quiet penguins & sheep until General Galtieri invaded it with armed forces. That's what militarisation looks like. Whatever the Spanish translation for 'once bitten, twice shy' is, she should take note.

What actually worries me is that i fear if Argentina ever did invade we wouldn't be able to defend it again.

Scrapping our aircraft carriers doesn't sound like such a great idea anymore!

but we do now have a landing strip capable of landing wide bodies jets on the Falklands (which was the problem before) - see my previous post about auditing it which no-one was impressed by , hmmph.

re who owned what when & who should get what back, have a go at \link{http://www.sporcle.com/games/zeppelinoid/countries_of_the_british_empire\Can you name the modern countries that were part of the British Empire?} - you will be amazed

oh Kew, I noticed it & was intrigued by it (& am always impressed by auditors of course )

Problem is Kew, how do we get aircraft into the area in the first place? There's no friendly countries we could use like we did in Libya and our fighters can't fly that far, let alone fight once they got there.

I know there was talk of us sharing an aircraft carrier with the French but I personally wouldn't like to guarantee the French would allow us to borrow it to go fight a war with Argentina.

If we cant defend it I think we should move everyone/the sheep/penguins off the Falklands and then nuke it, just so the Argentinians can't have it. We could design the mushroom cloud in the shape of a raised middle finger

..........not really, but would be funny until we all got radiation sickness and sparked off WW3

Bacl to whom? The penguins?

'I know there was talk of us sharing an aircraft carrier with the French but I personally wouldn't like to guarantee the French would allow us to borrow it to go fight a war with Argentina.'

"You want eet today?" Gallic shrug. "Non."

"But there's an invasion about to happen!"

"Non."

If Argentina want a British Overseas Territory, they should go for Bermuda instead - it's bigger, and warmer.

If we're divvying things up, I'll have Martinique - I'm sure the French won't mind .

At least if Falklands War II did break out the French would be on our side and not flogging Exocets to the Argentineans like last time!

DH spent 7 months down there with the RAF 5 years ago. Lots of penguins and seals, not much else. He and his mates got drunk quite regularly!

Deep down the Argentineans know they don't have the capability to get involved in a fight. The biggest concern is that the US, in trying to ingratiate itself with South American countries, keeps "encouraging" us to sit down at the negotiating table.

Not going to happen chaps!

Actually the French were one of our biggest allies during the Falklands war. Not only did they supply us with the planes the Argies used so we could train against them, they also showed us how to tamper with the Exocet missles.

Of course the other thing to remember is that even if the French let us borrow their carrier, our planes can't take off from them anyway. We may have been able to launch harriers because of their VTOL capabilities but the coalition scrapped them.

I stand corrected

I just remember reading about French-made Exocets!

I read in the Guardian that Mitterand initially refused to give the UK the codes to disable the Exocet until Margaret Thatcher threatened to launch a nuclear warhead against Buenos Aires.

As an Argy who has lived in the UK for over 10 years (with several stints back in Argyland throughout), I am frankly torn about this issue and sad at the nationalistic, accusatory and arrogant statements on BOTH sides. The "demonisation" of the Brits (or shall I say, the English) has become a part of the Argentine folklore much to my dismay as I find it rather childish and unhelpful. Whilst Cristina was giving her speech yesterday, there were hordes of 'supporters' chanting "El que no salta es un inglés" ("he/she who doesn't jump is an Englishman/woman") something that was used by all and sundry during the war and during football matches against England at every World Cup.

I do not agree with the stance that the government is taking in this respect as I don't think that it is conducive to any improvement in bilateral relations and it is certainly not paving the way for the British government to negotiate any time soon. I do believe that the islands are British: they have been for almost two centuries and although the reasons why the Brits came to own them are undoubtedly questionable, the truth is that it first happened when Argentina was still under Spanish control and the islands had no native inhabitants and had been empty for quite some time.

Part of me wishes they could both grow up, split them in two, keep one each and be over with this whole farce but they both seem to be behaving in an incredibly stubborn manner with the "all or nothing" premise and no desire to back down in any way.

I truly despise the jingoistic rhetoric of Cristina Fernández who has modelled herself into a modern-day Evita becoming a cult figure worshipped by many in a way that seems to me to be fanatical without any room for criticism or dissent. On the other hand, there is a point to be made regarding the exploitation of natural resources around the islands since it could be argued that the area of exclusion controlled by Britain overlaps with Argentine waters and Britain imposes fishing restrictions on Argentina in the region which result in considerable loss of revenue.

I do believe that Britain is still imperialistic in its attitudes towards many countries in the world...but by the same token, I think that us Latin Americans should look inwards and concentrate on our own problems which are many (especially the incredible levels of corruption, poverty and destitution) and that we should join forces to become a force to be reckoned with in the world scene through the amazing wealth (natural and cultural) of the continent and not through spite and anger towards other countries.

I hope there will be a peaceful resolution to this conflict with some sort of agreement over natural resources but sovereignty should be taken out of the equation...it is too late and too much pointless blood has been shed over it already.

MCT76 - amen to that.

I have been on two extended trips to Argentina (after the Falklands conflict but before children) and have to say the country has a huge huge potential if it were not for its political leadership. Me and DW loved the culture and the beauty of it and the people were universally very welcoming to us. The UK and Argentina have a had a long history of cultural and trade links.

I hope that the UK can reach an agreement with Argentina. Perhaps offering to share the benefit by agreeing to process the crude onshore as well as basing some oil field services in Argentina so providing jobs to Argentinians might be a start.

Hi MCT. It's nice to get another point of view.

The elephant in the room is that once again this is probably about oil than land. It just strikes me as a bit coincidental that the rhetoric has increased much more from Argentina since oil companies have been discovering oil in the region.

it certainly does seem sad that historically friendly relations between Argentina and Britain are being frayed again.

Fascinating article that gives more info on the psychoanalyst, Mitterand and Thatcher

www.margaretthatcher.org/document/110663

Never knew that website existed. Huge historical archive of everything to do with Thatcher. Fantastic historical resource.