So sad to hear another father has killed his wife and child

[spongefingeranyone]

Have heard on the news today that a recently sacked police officer has killed his wife and youngest child, with the eldest two escaping with dreadful injuries. It just makes me so sad for his family and very very angry that another father has seen fit to do this terrible thing.

My condolences to the family.

"unseen side of a recession"

In this particular case it is being reported that the man at the centre had ben sacked from the force for misconduct. That's not directly attributable to recession. I think there is a psychological phenomenon of psychotic episodes leading to extended suicide that rears its head from time to time - it's on the same continuum as mass-shootings, I believe - but I don't accept that it is exclusively male and I don't believe that it can be foreseen or specifically prevented. Very sad story that will be particularly difficult for the two children that survived.

I think the whole male-female element is probably a lot more simplistic. It's quite simply that most men are physically capable of going into a house with a woman and children in it and overpowering them. A woman generally speaking probably isn't. It's why although DV exists from woman-man it's more likely to be the other way round.

Bucharest - I don't think anyone would try to justify it, but I doubt this guy has acted rationally.

Absolutely horrendous. Those poor, poor children who witnessed their mum and sister being killed

I do not understand how people can kill their own children. What is in their head that makes them think that is an ok thing to do?

"What is in their head"

Psychosis. As someone explained earlier, the irrational thought process that your family are better off sharing your fate. In the Foster case in 2009, not only were the immediate family killed but the family horses & dogs and the whole place burned to the ground. It's an extended form of suicide.... effectively erasing not only yourself but your extended self (family, property, possessions) at the same time.

Cogito I wasn't saying that this particular case was a result of recession, just that apparently these crimes happen more in times of economic turmoil.

Why do we always have to have ridiculous comments pointing out that a minority of comparably violent offences are committed by women? What interests could anyone possibly have in pretending that male violence isn't as severe as we know it to be. Are you pretending that women pose as much physical danger to others WidowWadman or do you believe it?

I watched an interesting documentary on channel 4 on demand (4OD) called "We need to talk about Dad" (true story).
If any of you have time I suggest you watch it. It was an eye opener for me, I hadn't realised how a seemingly balanced person could have an psychotic episode that turns then into something so different.

I always understood extended suicide to be mother and infant. While we we are on the topic of distasteful lens through which family annihilation may be viewed it's worth remembering not only that psychosis has social and cultural causes but that the mentally ill are more vulnerable to becoming victims rather than perpetrators of violence.

Today's news stories seem to suggest a rather different explanation - apparently the husband thought his wife was having an affair, a jealous rage rather than some kind of psychosis.

Not that it makes it any better or worse for the people involved - my sypathies to them all.

Men are more violent. Men are most often the 'family annihilators'

All that is being said is the above ^, which is true. What no one is saying, is that women are pure perfect creatures who never do terrible things however women don't do things like this on such a horrifically regular basis that something 'needs to be done' about it.

Having said that, I don't see what can really be done about it. An advertising campaign to all men saying - if you have got debt, been sacked, whatever - seek help. If you really can't seek help and want to kill yourself, fine - but ffs don't kill your wife and family please, they CAN actually live perfectly well without you.

Not gonna happen is it?

So very sad for those two children. How awful :(

Withinthepale "Are you pretending that women pose as much physical danger to others WidowWadman or do you believe it?"

Not pretending anything - just stating the opinion that the knowledge that men are more likely to become family annilhilators or commit extended suicide does probably have zilch bearing on prevention strategies.

Noone on this thread has so far pointed out how it would help to know that men commit these deeds more often. Only kept repeating the mention that indeed men do it more often, which noone has denied in the first place.

'zilch bearing on prevention strategies'? You acknowledge the need for preventative action against gender based violence but think the gender basis has 'zilch bearing', or have I taken too much wine

No I have not acknowledged the need for preventative action against "gender based violence", but have said that whilst I don't deny that more men than women commit this particular crime, I don't think that a prevention strategy based on gender would work.

I think the gender thing is important simply because we live in a society where men and boys are actively discouraged from displaying emotions except in situations of physical competition (e.g. sports). Therefore the inability of men to express emotion except in violent or physical terms means they are more likely to respond in this way when thwarted whereas women are encouraged from birth to be quiet and orderly and talking about emotions is expected, so their reactions are inevitably less violent.
So if boys and men were "allowed" by society to actually express their feelings a lot of this (and the majority of family annihilation crimes) could be avoided.

extended suicide is just an awful saying

like collateral damage
or the prison service's "nose distraction technique"

It is a phrase which serves only to distract and reduce the fact of what has happened ie Murder. Also is really unpalatable in that it means that women and children are literally nothing more than adjuncts of a man, to do with as he chooses. So if he kills his wife and children - it's just "extended suicide" - they don't mean anything more than that by and of themselves.

Awful awful horrible phrase and if this is now in common parlance then that is just so upsetting.

Widow wadman your last post would seem to indicate that you do not approve of any kind of gender focussed action for violent crimes?

Mother and newborn would make sense to me as extended suicide if the child was so young as to still be an extension of the mother IYSWIM.

Hmmm... I think it's got more to do with the fact that many men still seem to consider women and children as some sort of possession - lesser beings who do not matter as much as the man.

I believe, on average, in the UK two women are killed every week by partners or ex-partners. That's a chilling statistic.

Have a look at this thread - it's heartbreaking.