The Welfare Reform Bill

[omaoma]

she's called Mrs Pat O'Nions see here

Only 6,000 people have signed her petition because... I don't know why anybody wouldn't sign it, so hoping it's just lack of awareness and am posting here.

The following blog post - Where's the Benefit - by Lisa, about how the government's proposed and imminent welfare reforms are going to affect real, breathing people, is what got my attention:

"The Welfare Reform Bill is only one Lords reading short of Royal Assent. Then that's it, all hope is lost and I have that deadline of 2013 when my life will actually become unliveable. I don't want to die; I may not have grand dreams any more but there are simple things I still want to do in life: I want to learn to sing, I want to go to Comic Con. Things I can't afford to do even now... I've got a feeling of this ominous deadline when I lose my DLA in 2013... It's almost impossible for me to even visualise 2014... I just see darkness.
"The current feeling of sadness is compounded by the fact that it doesn't need to be this way. People could have fought against the Welfare Reform Bill but they chose not to. I've always been acutely aware of how much society hates me because I'm disabled; the disablist-motivated abuse when I was in primary school made sure I had it drummed into me for life that I am a second-class citizen. I had thought things were getting better in recent years with things like the Disability Discrimination Act, but clearly I was a gullible fool.
"This year has seen a cornucopia of anti-cuts activity, but most of it has been geared towards saving libraries and trees. I don't see it as a zero sum game, I've campaigned about issues other than the WRB. But apparently the mainstream left does see it that way: The anti-cuts movement chose to fight to save libraries rather than lives. There's nothing quite like that knowledge to really make you feel despised."

"I beg of you, please don't just read, be horrified and pass on. Please do something."

Provocative? Yes. Worth 2 minutes of your time? Surely.

I've just signed it, nearly at 9,000 now.
I can't believe Mabels post. Being disabled shouldn't be about being in debt. It usually is as the resources are so low and it won't change anytime soon, the same as some people's attitudes to the disabled

So, DLA is going to go, but it will be replaced with something else. Is that right? But people are going reassesed to see if they need it?

I had heard (probably on here) that far too many people were being told that they were going to lose disability benefits and had to go through a horrible appeal process to get it reinstated. I though that loads of people were gtting it reinstated because the assesors had made so many fuck ups? Am I still right?

Of course the lady in the article should get disability benefit. There is really no question about that.

You're right sevenfold DLA costs the goverment about £400 a month for ds and £220 CA for me, and extra CTC. With his respite 2 nights a month costing about £100 a night they are saving about £7,000 a month compared to residential care for him. And he doesn't need high end medical care so his is cheaper then some of the residential care packages.
But for the sake of right wing hard not caring bastards who would rather not see a family coping and relying on government help he could lose his DLA as he will be over 16 when the PIP comes in. HE has a lifelong condition and will never be able to provide for himself but will probably be told to 'man up and get on with his life' or some other tripe they will tell us when they take the DLA away.

We have worried since his diagnosis about what will happen when he leaves school and when we die. Now we have to worry about not being able to provide for him when he is a teenager

Why automatically assume PIP is worse? I assume sevenfold's post was aimed at me, but all I am asking is where does it say people are suffering due to this change - no-one knows what it is, no-one will lose DLA until assessed for PIP, which may be more generous for some
I support helping the disabled, just not sure why most people on here are convinced the change will destroy disabled peoples lives -please let me have the evidence, rather than insults.

That's the bit that confuses me too youngermother.

youngermother

The govt is proposing to replace DLA with PIP,with a resource reduction of 20%.This means that either the numbers of claimants will be cut (fraud currently runs at

it wasn't I never mind people who want to find out more, but there were to shitty posts at the beginning of the thread(to be fair one as the other is a well know stirrer) that is who it was directed at.

but do you think it is right to heap more stress on disabled people?It isn't a life style choice, they have no choice, yet now our loving caring society want to make disabled people jump through more hoops. there will be pople who fall though the gap, they will lose money and help and end up desperate. not the kid of desperate you feel when you can't pay a cc bill, or your mortgage, but the kind of desperate you feel when your life is taken away.
these changes are heaping stress on people who are at breaking point, they are on top of SS cuts, closure of day centres , lack of money from charities(as they are getting less)
imagine you are a parent that is looking at a future where you will end up caring 24/7 for your grown up child, with little or no help.

I can't find anything on that first link Gravy

From what I can gether from here and RL, cuts to adult support services seem to be quite extreme. That is something I would very definately help campaign against.

slavetofilofax

The cases you are referring to are ESA (replacement for Incapacity Benefit). This is an out-of-work benefit for those considered too ill for employment.

DLA is a separate benefit designed to cover the additional costs that having a disability occurs (mobility aids, transport costs, medication, dietary requirements, paying for care and assistance). This is not means-tested or contribution based, and can be claimed by those in work, or by carers on behalf of their charges.

ESA is also being slashed, with eligibility criteria tightened up to a ridiculous degree, and payments limited to a year, irreguardless of the severity or duration of the illness/disability.

working link here

Info on ESA cuts

ATOS assessments scandal

wiki entry on ATOS...scroll halfway down to Healthcare

imagine you are a parent that is looking at a future where you will end up caring 24/7 for your grown up child, with little or no help.

Exactly and remember if you have to give up work to do this and therefore claim IS and housing and council tax you will be vilified and called a scrounger.

They are changing rules and criteria all in the name of catching out less then 1% who are cheats and they will ruin 20% of families lives

Thanks all for the links and explains the situation better. I still think there is not enough information to go on as to whether PIP is the right answer, and many agree that DLA needs reform (see comments on DBC link). Also of note is that the ATOS assessment system (which seems, to put it politely, flawed) has been in place for new applicants since 2008. This is therefore nothing to do with the new bill and any complaints should be separated from this. It is interesting to note that complaints only appear to have been in the paper since the new welfare rules were announced, not when it was introduced over 3 years ago - has it got worse, or just not mentioned as introduced by the previous government and therefore not of interest to the Guardian?
My key concern would be lack of clarity about the new rules, not that they may exist.

youngermother

Why does DLA need to be reformed? It's already rigorously assessed, and is one of the hardest benefits to claim. Fraud currently runs at lass then 1%.

You still haven't addressed my point on the 20% budget reduction.

And finally, The Gardy was already investigating the ATOS scandal in 2009/10 under the Labour government...link here. There are others from this time period, but I canna be arsed to find them at the mo., especially when I should be doing last minute xmas shopping.

DLA is incredibly hard to claim, it involves a massive form, you have to get back up from experts, it is time consuming and bloody hard.

that is why imo fraud is so low.
why change it? there is no reason except to make more people not able to claim, so they live in poverty or residential care, much more expensive that DLA, £150 a weekday night for my DD

While PIP has not yet been finalised and not yet applicable for under 16's (it will be at some point and one day our kids will be 16) there have already been suggestions that if your education and medical expenses are large then those will come out of your allocated PIP money. So the most severely disabled will end up with no money in hand.
DLA was introduced in order to give disabled people the choice on how they spent it as it was decided that they were in the best position to know how their impairment affected their day to day living and what their needs are. So for us its extra washing and heating (among other things) as child is quadriplegic so gets cold and continence pads leak so we go through 9 pairs of trousers a day. Other disabled people will have other needs. They are best placed to know what they are. There have been suggestions that PIP is administered by already overworked and understaffed social services so an example would be, In October I hear its going to be a very cold winter. So I need extra coal. Which I curently use some DLA for (non quadriplegic ppl move around and can wear extr layers. Quadriplegics are like lederly people in that many cant shiver nor register when they are becoming too cold. Thats why old people get winter fuel alowance)
Under this proposed PIP I would have to apply to SS for PIP money, get assessed, wait blah de blah. It took 13 months to get a toileting chair. There's only one model available but it still took 13 months. Or, child needs to get to hospital as an emergency (but not ambulance emergency) so we get a taxi and pay for it with DLA. Rather than phone SS, wait for assessment appt some 3 weeks later and then payment some 4 months after that
Those are crude examples of course but far more intelligent and experienced disability activists have been investigating this stuff for months and it all looks like a disaster for disabled people.
Those of you saying you still dont understand, there's enough links given out and examples given. I dont understand why you dont understand.

What is to understand is that DLA of £100 a week, while inadequate for a person who needs major equipment (and its not supplied) does mean young disabled people can remin in the family home. Lose it and they go into care at a cost of £2000 per week (plus the risk of abuse as in Winterbourne View).
Its important for disabled people to decide where the money is spent, which is what DLA was designed for. Not once again made dependant on other, non disabled people deciding what is best for them.

mine is over 16.

I just can't decide if some people here are just plain stupid or so wrapped up in themselves they cannot show an ounce of common sense.

Which are you? Thick and stupid or just plain ignorant - I just can't decide.

Merry Christmas to you anyway - may you stew in your own resentments and live to see the realities of your support for these reforms.

Taking money from those who are carers or disabled - it beggers belief that ANYONE could support such an action.

youngmother I get DLA and will be affected by PIp becuase i can self propel for 50 m I will be classed as independently mobile and entitled to no assistance .Despote the fact I can not board a train without 24 hours notice .Bus onloy if has a ramp and only if the ramp works

Still can not access a lot of buildings .Oh and thats 50 m one direction on the flat no help for the fact that would need to propel 50 m home or that ground is never completley flat so more punishing or the fact my shoulders will end up shit because not only do my arms act as my legs i still need to do everything arms do

and because my shoulders will be shot .That means they going need to put in carers to help me at home .But hey ho not like it matters to them at final sum it is all in appearenaces

oh and young mother you want the nuts and bolts of my day go sit on your toilet and then try wiping your arse without moving of the toilet or lifting any part below the waist

Ypur friend thats a paraplegic probabky does not share what life is really like the nitty gritty stuff .

The changes to DLA that have been proposed are not progressive at all.

Oh and Maybel and Maypole1 - fuck the fuck off and when you get there fuck off again. You obviously have no idea what it's like to have a 10 year old who can't talk, can't dress herself and runs in the road when we go out. Or what it's like to lie in bed at night and wonder what's going to happen to her at 16, at 25 and when I'm dead and gone. Shame on you both for your selfish lack of empathy.

If this gets deleted I don't care - I am sick of trying to reason with selfish people who have absolutely no idea and don't give a damn about other people.

perception UnMN((((Hugs))))

Take away my DlA your actually taking away my independence and will make me more reliant on the state . As it will mean I will need daily carers in . Which will cost more in a week than what I get now in a month

I am not necessarily arguing for these reforms and have little experience in this area. I have full sympathy for people who need help, and am trying to understand the position from all sides. Abuse at people who are asking for clarification is not helpful as it just winds people up.

The OP asked us to sign a petition against the welfare reform bill. I am simply asking for information to help form an opinion. My research, and others, linked above suggest that DLA needs reforming (agreed by disability groups). Their main concerns seems to be:

1. Expected budget cut of 20% - agree this seems high. Fraud does appear to represent only 0.5% campaigns.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem/fem_apr08_mar09.pdf in the 04/05 tax year but overpayments are considered to be over 9% research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/dlafraudjuly05.pdf. The difference between these 2 figures is due to changes in circumstances of claimants which are not picked up on early enough. To quote the first linked report 'Because legislation requires the Secretary of State to prove that entitlement to DLA is incorrect, rather than requiring the customer to inform us that their needs have changed, cases in this sub-category are legally correct. The difference between what customers in these cases are receiving in DLA and related premiums in other benefits and what they would receive if their benefit was reassessed was estimated to be around £0.6 billion (+/-£0.2 billion). This component is not included in the total above.

Therefore it appears that a cut of c.9% can be achieved without changing anyone's entitlement, but identifying sooner people who no longer qualify.

1. Lack of clarity about the new rules - agree would be nice, but does not mean that all the horror stories above are true - no-one is sure who will qualify, who will get more and who will get less. Therefore, to say that this will mean posters above or 3 of the 4 people in kalsirata's post on the 22nd will lose all benefit is wrong, mis-leading and scare-mongering. I understand the uncertainty can be very stressful, but insisting on worse case scenarios does not help anyone. Any DLA recipient who reads those threads will be terrified unnecessarily.

Posters have also included comments about the ATOS system, which does seem wrong, but this is not related to the welfare reform bill as has been in place for over 3 years, therefore not strictly relevant to the discussion on this thread.