Summer born children will be behind all through their school life

[BleughCowWonders]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15527145

:( really?

I'd assumed my dd (very end August) would catch up by about yr 2 or so - but not according to the BBC report. So she'll also be far more likely be behind in reading, writing and maths, and 20% less likely to go to (a good) university.

It shows something about the whole population trend, but is not a predictor for the individual as there are other variables. In some ways, it's stating the bleedin' obvious - a child that has only just stopped being three is of course different from one who us about to be five. It shows fairly sharply then, but would be true to an extent whenever the school year began - there will always be an age range, and the differences in maturity/readiness will show whatever the school starting age (though I suppose it's less in places where the starting age is older).

It's interesting that the "halo" effect of a good start (and presumably the effects that has on motivation and self-esteem) may last longer than previously believed.

But good, differentiated teaching should allow every child the chance to make good progress regardless of their start point.

It depends on the child I think.
My DS is an end of August baby and was more than ready to start school at just turned 4 yrs. He's very bright and I expect him to do really well at school.

I was also thinking about the puberty/teenage years, particularly for boys.

My DP is short and August born too. He was the 'king-bee' at middle school, captain of the football team etc. By high school all of the other boys had grown about a foot and hit puberty and he (in his own words) was bottom of the heap, not even on the football team, when he was the star player before. This definitely affected him as he says so! For boys I think there is something in appearing big and strong and being athletic. Luckily my OH makes up for it by being gobby and very sociable , but he did struggle as a teenager a bit.

As a former teacher, I can see some truth in this - and in many schools children with birthdays from April onwards are now monitored for potential underachievement. A year's difference in age is hugely significant for younger children, and in the classes I have taught it has tended to be the older children who come up as as the 'high achievers' early on, often purely because they are more confident and mature. Sadly, from the Foundation Stage Profile onwards, children are often linked to a number/level, and when I was teaching Year 1, it was often the autumn-born children who came into my class with Reception scores of 8 and 9 in the various areas of learning. These children were then projected to be the academic successes at KS1 and KS2, while the younger children lagged behind, simply because they had less life experience. It's also the biggest, strongest (and therefore often oldest) children who make it into the school teams at this level - and who then get themselves a reputation for being 'sporty'.

I have a summer birthday myself (July) and while I was an academic high achiever and now have a Masters degree, at primary school I was consistently placed in a mixed-age class with the other July/August born children from my year and the older children from the year below. Although my teachers did try to differentiate the work by age as well as ability, this wasn't always effective and for practicality's sake, we sometimes covered topics from the academic year below, rather than what the older class were learning. Summer-born children also seemed to be something of a rarity at my academic grammar school, as the vast majority of the other birthdays in my year group clustered around September/October/November. So there does seem to be something there - albeit with plenty of exceptions!

PP, ah our tracking system - I see so many limitations because of exactly what you describe but teachers on here tell me otherwise.

What about the late August child that comes up into Y3 with level 3s but isn't chosen for the extension group because they are not seen as quite as able as the level 3A/3B September child (who may have just pipped them to the post in SATS/NC levels at the end of KS1) in the same year group? You get the Malcolm Gladwell Outliers scenario potentially playing out.

I think the NC and tracking systems have made it far more difficult for the late summer born to excel. I spoke to a bright, young graduate earlier this week, she peaked later than expected but the playing field was far more even (in her opinion) due to a different system being in place.

I imagined that a late August child who got 3s at the end of KS1 was doing particularly well but was told on here that it made no odds and as they'd had the same exposure to school as an older child and it didn't mean anything really?

I think it really depends on the school/teacher. There are some fantastic schools out there that don't reduce a child to a level, and that take their age and overall maturity into account when making decisions about setting etc. But in many of the schools I've taught in, current systems mean that projected outcomes for children are effectively set in stone very early on. Last year, teaching Year 1, I was asked to sit down with my deputy head teacher and predict my class's Year 6 SATs levels based on the scores that the childre had just gained in their Foundation Stage Profiles. While the school realised that this was pretty ridiculous, they needed to have this data available for Ofsted and their school improvement liaison from the LEA.

This situation means I've had a few occasions where senior management have been amazed by the apparently miraculous achievement of a child in my Year 5 class who was 'only a level 2B at the end of KS1' and should therefore, in their eyes, not be achieving so highly in KS2. Pointing out that the child in question was born on the 31st August, and was therefore a whole year younger than some of her peers when their destiny was apparently set in stone by the KS1 SATs invariably raises eyebrows!

Malcolm Gladwell explores this topic in his book Outliers. He found lots of top sports stars had birthdays closer to the start of the entry year (when they started in sports teams as kids/teenagers), or Sept if we are talking schools years. However the main theme of the book is that actually hard work is the thing that "outliers" have in common even if they have luck/circumstances on their side.

sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=merron/081208

Two close friends, both at state schools got 9 A GCSEs and then 3 A A'levels and both were born towards/in the summer.

Literary Mermaid I find that rather surprising and very saddening. Is the sort of scenario you describe becoming increasingly common do you think?

I went to school maths workshop recently, I was shocked to read that the teachers expected certain less able children (who were predicted a low level 4 in maths at 11) to spend rather longer on a method X. This was several years before they'd be 11!

A young lad I know got an A in maths from the bottom set of a large state school. He was very young for year and had always struggled. His Mum got him a tutor for the last couple of years and he made progress - the school were reluctant to move him from the bottom set for some reason. He was invited to an awards ceremony and won a prize for best 'value added' or something like that. When I congratulated him on his achievement he said it was great he was up there with 'the cream, the really bright'. Turns out these had got very similar GCSEs to him but as he saw it he was a bit dim and had worked hard so his A's were less valid!

His book focuses a lot on the opportunities that go into creating the circumstances where hard work is possible.

Being picked for the team in the first place
Living in the hall of residence that's nearest the computer room so you can work there all night
Having access to a particular school program
Being born within a narrow window of years that means you don't have a family to support and can risk taking a job in an uncertain industry

That's the point of the book: that you have to work hard to excel, but that random chance plays a part too.

Which is encouraging because it means you can always have a go at identifying good opportunities and making up for unfair differences.

Sorry, not had chance to read all posts.

DH August born, went to Cambridge, now a doctor.

DD2 also born August, top set for all subjects in year 2.

Like a lot of reports / stats, you can read what you want into them.

LaPruneDeMaTante yes, I took the book's message as a positive one - there is always something you can do - which I didn't say above.

i'm not convinced about this. My brother was an August birthday and did very well at school and has a successful career. also my YD is a July birthday and she has got very good GCSE results which are better than my ED who was born in the Autumn. She had no reception and went straight into Y1 which worried me at the time.

I think it depends on the child.

I know a young lady who got 10A* and a couple of As, just got 4 As at AS and busily doing the rounds of good unis - sights set on Cambridge. State comp, born 30th August.

Which just shows, children are individuals not statistics.

Seems to me some of the problems encountered by Mermaid of children with early birthdays being put in higher sets etc could be alleviated if age-adjustment was used intelligently. I know it used to be applied to IQ tests - I would guess CAT-type tests too? - and while SAT type tests are different because they aim to measure attainment rather than ability it should surely be possible to balance it somewhat?

Yes it's a really positive message and deserves a lot of discussion in the world at large. Lots about seizing the day and about how long the game is. For some reason that book affected me quite a bit (Malcolm Gladwell really annoys me ) and in a positive way.

I understand the points posters are making, but to cheer worried parents up.....

My elder dd was born late August. There was this assumption that she would be 'behind' and they tried to hold her back for one term to give her a chance to 'mature' even though she was reading well and doing well generally. She was as miserable as sin and started playing up and being bored and disruptive. Luckily, after a term the school twigged they might have made a mistake and gave her an IQ test. As a result they put her up again and subsequently also advanced her another year, which meant she went to university at 17 and went on to get a first in biochemistry and a Phd in molecular biology.

So don't worry unnecessarily about August babies - just make sure they have a full and rich home environment before they start school, plus make sure the school is treating the child as an individual, not an age statistic.

I was grateful the school realised that holding her back and separating her from her friends when she was coping perfectly well gave her entirely the wrong message and she reacted accordingly.

My DS and DD both summer born were behind and DD still is (year 3 in maths). Both bottom groups in Year 1 and Year 2. My DS Year 7 is now excelling and in top stream of comp and 2nd in year for science, top set for English and top stream for Maths. Most of those who went to grammar (DS did not apply as would have had to travel to different borough were summer-born so in my experience they do catch up but not until later primary years.

The bit about sport is true though. DS is tiny and has always hated sport because he was never any good. Having said that I was October and was still crap at sport so maybe it is just my influence on him. I hate the target setting. At primary DS never moved to top set until final year as only got 2s at the end of year 2 (like DD). He got all 5s at the end of year 6 and was one of the top for writing. He got a 2C in this at the end of Year 2. I am therefore looking forward to seeing DD excel as well as both work hard. They have had to work harder than the older born children and this means they are prepared to graft. As an October-born it all came easy to me from Day One and therefore I did not work hard and never really learnt this academically and therefore ended up with reasonable grades. Certainly at the moment if DS carries on the way he is, I expect him to wipe the floor with my grades. His ambition is to study at Oxford and the way he works I do not see any reason why he should not go.

I was the youngest and smallest through most of my school life. I did feel being a late August birthday, put me at a disadvantage to my peers. But it didn't stop me getting a good degree from a good university, that's down to the individual child and their life experiences.

This will be an advantage to your Dd in later life. I am loving it now, I am nearly a whole year younger, than the friends I went to school with and take every opportunity to remind them of the fact, now we are sliding down the hill to decrepit.

My daughter was born on 31st July - so almost August! She has struggled throughout her school life in-terms of maturity - and social aspects of her school life - I think has also had a knock on effect with her work. Until the final term in year 9 (age almost 14yrs) she blossomed - it was amazing - it was as though she suddenly caught up! I always knew she was clever - and when she entered the school at year 7 they do a test to predict what they may achieve at GCSE - she was one of the top scorers, and the school couldn't understand why she wasn't achieving what she was capable of. I definitely think it was a maturity thing and also - she never started school until the easter term of her 5th birthday year - so she and the other young ones were always referred to as the young ones and I think they position themselves as this - it took until the end of year 9 for her to shake off this position - She is now in Year 11 which is GCSE year and is working hard and going for gold!
ALthough I do think the school year should be split into 2 x 6 months sections - this would give all children an more equal chance - especially if a child was young in the 6 month slot they could be moved down in to the next slot down and it would just give them a bit of time - which our younger babies need.
My next problem is when they all want to go night clubbing and my girl wont be able to go!! probably a blessing!

DS is an end of Aug birthday. We knew when he started school he would be developmentally behind, especially some of the girls. He was bright & confident but unlikely to be top half of the reception class for anything and we didn't want that confidence to take a huge knock. We deliberately looked for an outside school activity that could be his 'thing'.

My August born DS has just finished first half-term in reception. It's going well (much better than preschool), he's doing fine academically, and socially, well, he's quiet, plays on his own quite a bit apparently, but there are several children he "likes" and he is not unpopular, on the contrary. But you could certainly argue he is not as mature as some. He is smaller, which will affect his sporting rank, though he's always struck me as being exceptionally athletic for his age.
However . . . his class has many children with very little English at this stage, and a number with disadvantages/special needs of other kinds. I think I can safely say that being a few months younger than average is in this context a fairly minor issue!
Which is just to illustrate, as many people above have pointed out, that the influences are many and varied and birthday but one factor. I am fairly confident that a number of those non-English speaking, apparently backward classmates will make it to top universities one day, even the ones born in summer.
Nonetheless - a good school must take birthday along with other factors into account when assessing, and make every effort to avoid any sense of failure . . .

My dearest friend at school has a July birthday and a First Class Honours degree in Ancient Greek. Lots of other examples I'm sure.
Fact is, if you want to succeed you will. July/August birthday just means you are slightly less mature than your classmates.
(Puts tin hat on ready for barrage of complaints)

Barack Obama is an August birthday - and he hasn't done too badly in life.....