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NICE recommend all women should be able to have a cs

999 replies

LoveBeingAWitch · 29/10/2011 22:59

Just seen tomorrow's front page of the Sunday times saying that NICE are saying cd has become such a safe op that every woman should be able to have one if that's what they want. Im quite surprised by this.

OP posts:
NotnOtter · 31/10/2011 20:40

a planned caesarian just can not cost that in real terms

StarlightMcKenzie · 31/10/2011 20:43

Shag. It isn't really what I want as I see it going the way with tuition fees, beginning with ever increasing 'top-ups', but recognising that women could/should have a right to choose how 'their' £3k is spent, including some recognition of the NHS as a commissioner as well as deliverer could help.

twankie · 31/10/2011 20:48

I chose an elective CS first time around..I think I was petrified of the pain. For dd2, I decided this was going to be my last chance to experience the warts and all of a VB so went ahead. It was THE best decision I've ever made. I LOVED it! Painful...a bit but nothing I couldn't cope with without pain-relief drugs and a positive frame of mind (I'd spent a fair time preparing this). I loved the feeling when my daughter slipped out between my legs. Having said that, my labour was very quick...perhaps if it'd gone on for days I would have been so exhausted, I would have demanded a CS..who knows? Different women have different experiences, though I do believe that many of us can be led through the pain with the right supportive people..I had a doula who believed I could do it; a midwife who felt the same and my own shee bloody mkindedness. My dh and the drs thought I couldn't... but I did it.

TheGrassIsJewelled · 31/10/2011 20:48

DD's birth was textbook - arrived at hospital fully dilated, she was born less than 2 hours later. No pain relief, great mw in MLU. So far so good.

Then I lost too much blood, and the mw messed up my stitches. Cue a post-birth op (full team, anaesthesia, etc). Then this went wrong and I had a daycase repair op 7 months later. I have yet another gynae appt this month.

At first sight, DD's birth looks v economical for the NHS, but a planned C-section would have been loads cheaper. Talking to friends, am amazed at the number of prolapses, incontinence, dodgy stitching.

The next one will def be a c-section. Was so relieved to hear of these guidelines, but will still request one before I even TTC.

EdlessAllenPoe · 31/10/2011 20:49

unfortunately there seems to be little popular appetite for change. many women don't seem to want to make decisions about their care, adopt the 'doc knows best' attitude. i actually think this is a feminist issue - women keep on being told their birth-experiences are unimportant and 'a live mother and baby is good enough'. Many seem to believe it. strangely the same person will make very active decisions about, say, their dentistry....and pay for it - but then men also have teeth.

i may only get one set of teeth, but i've only got one pelvic floor too....
(one hell of a slogan: Im: because your fanjo is worth it....)

NotnOtter · 31/10/2011 20:53

respect Juule!!

juuule · 31/10/2011 21:00

Cheers, notnotter :o but I'm not sure I deserve it. It's just the way things played out. It could have been a lot worse but there were things that could have been better.

StarlightMcKenzie · 31/10/2011 21:01

IMO any woman who requests a c/s should be given one, but there should be investment in all the things that would deter a woman from requesting one, such as confidence in quality VB care, experienced one woman/one midwife set ups, better antenatal education.

And this would work for epidural and other pain relief requests. To simply bully a woman into accepting a VB she has no faith in being able to achieve for some of the reasons stated above is barbaric.

shagmundfreud · 31/10/2011 21:15

"one hell of a slogan: Im: because your fanjo is worth it...."

I suppose it depends whether you think that the only vagina which is properly functional and 'normal' is that of a childless woman or a woman who's given birth abdominally. Sad

I've had a forceps birth and a shoulder dystocia with an 11lb baby. I can still feel my episiotomy scar and my pelvic floor isn't what it could be. But my vagina still works, still gives me and dh pleasure. And actually I've read posts from women on these boards who feel that childbirth has actually improved the sensation they get during intercourse - something which would never occur to women terrified of perineal damage in childbirth. I don't expect either my breasts or my vagina to look like a woman's who's not had kids. I don't want them to - the marks and the changes my body's gone through are part of my personal history. It saddens me how common it is for women here to make pitying comments about the state of women's genitals who've given birth normally. It's quite ugly really. About as ugly as showing distaste for an horror of a c/s scar - something I've seen very little of on mumsnet.

EdlessAllenPoe · 31/10/2011 21:18

"I suppose it depends whether you think that the only vagina which is properly functional and 'normal' is that of a childless woman or a woman who's given birth abdominally"

no!!! not what i meant at all!! i meant as it reduced the chance of perineal damage. my apologies, but that's really not what i meant.

HauntForTheBeast · 31/10/2011 21:21

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on request of its author.

MistyMountainHop · 31/10/2011 21:24

shagmund i have friends who have given birth vaginally who actually make jokes about how they now have bucket fannies - my best mate once said hers looks like a kebab after her two 9lb+ babies :o

and DH says he can tell the difference between sex with me (2 elcs) and an ex of his who had 3 natural deliveries) - and i am tighter, in fact when we were first together he was a bit erm, premature for the first few months as he wasn't used to the, ahem, extra friction :o

juuule · 31/10/2011 21:26

"in fact when we were first together he was a bit erm, premature for the first few months"

Isn't that the same for most people 'for the first few months' regardless Wink

MistyMountainHop · 31/10/2011 21:29

"in fact when we were first together he was a bit erm, premature for the first few months"

Isn't that the same for most people 'for the first few months' regardless

yeah i thought that too jule, reckon it could have just been his excuse for being a bit quick off the draw Wink mind you hes not much different now :o

BagofHolly · 31/10/2011 21:32

Add message | Report | Message posterStarlightMcKenzie Mon 31-Oct-11 but recognising that women could/should have a right to choose how 'their' £3k is spent, including some recognition of the NHS as a commissioner as well as deliverer could help.

Well said.

StarlightMcKenzie · 31/10/2011 21:45

Haunt, why?

Because women should feel confident that if they chose a VB they would receive excellent care, that their likelihood of experiencing pain, fear, forceps, damage is practically non-existent. Then, if they chose a c/section it will be likely for other reasons personal to them and not about fear or fear of the unpredictability of birth that is linked to environment, personnel and budgets.

And if you can remove so many of the things that go wrong for women who give birth by VB, that are very often LINKED to those things I mention above, then actually the outcome for mother and baby is vastly better that if the mother has a C/S.

Sadly, all I mention above is reality and can cause women so many problems it can make a c/s the better option.

I don't think many women have had an optimal VB. That would mean no fear, knowing the m/w who is permenently present. No internals. No monitoring. No touching. No beds. No semi-reclining positions. No clocks. No 'delivery' (babies are born, not delivered and usually the mother can do this herself. No instructions and absolutely no interference, - just quality safety monitoring.

With this, all the right hormones will do what they are designed to do and mother and baby will benefit and continue to with the ability to safely co-sleep, quickly recover, breastfeeding and bond.

Few vbs are actually like this.

gailforce1 · 31/10/2011 21:47

Just watching Origins of Us and Alice roberts showing how the babies head comes down through the pelvis - amazing any babies are born given how tightly the head fits and the angles that need to be achieved!

gailforce1 · 31/10/2011 21:52

Starlight I am sure that induction leads to so many women having poor experiences of VB. Have posted a thread in Childbirth abour Foley catethers v prostaglandin as an induction method and, I think, it makes interesting reading esp how the gel reduces blood flow to the baby by forcing the cervix to open and having the uterus contract. Far removed from the VB you describe.

mercibucket · 31/10/2011 21:53

soudns a bit of a tragic excuse for being 'a bit quick off the draw' tbh, mistymountaintop - get him to do a few pelvic floor exercises - heard they work wonders for premature ejaculation

EdlessAllenPoe · 31/10/2011 21:58

oh chirsit, am too tired..misread your post shagmund ...

yes i know what you mean. i was going to get my post deleted and ask you to report yours as it was a crass comment and misplaced humour -and open to misinterpretation on a v. serious thread, but i've re-read what you said and evidently i didn't understand you first time either. silly mare me.

although i wonder if the change in sexual sensation is part of becoming closer to your OH when you have a child with them. biggest sexual organ being the brain and all.

quietlyafraid · 31/10/2011 21:59

So lets get this straight... in Germany, a country in northern europe which is not unlike the UK in demographics etc, women can choose to have a c-section, yet most still have a VB?

Astonishing. Why aren't they all demanding the 'easy option' like all these hoards of women in the UK are going to do?

And this is politically acceptable and women without 'clinical need' aren't treated with horror and contempt for choosing a c-section?

Shocking. The world must ended in Germany.

EdlessAllenPoe · 31/10/2011 22:02

buggers off to bed before says anything else daft

StarlightMcKenzie · 31/10/2011 22:03

I'm grateful to you for pointing out where Germany is quietly but unfortunately I don't understand the meaning of the rest of your post.

mercibucket · 31/10/2011 22:03

ah but the Germans are so much more stoic than us Brits, quietlyafraid

NotnOtter · 31/10/2011 22:05

do female bits change after childbirth? To look at i mean??

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