Let St Pauls Be St Pauls

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Now that the protest occupying the area outside St Pauls has made its point, it's time they moved on. Any goodwill they may have for their points of view is being eroded by the problems they are causing this key place of worship and tourist attraction. They are not inconveniencing 'The City' in the slightest. Own-goal.

I suspect Meditrina didn't read Hilltrop's post, or decided to ignore it...

Occupy London has however reconfigured to meet safety requirements - an impossibility, surely, if there were no concerns? Especially as the Cathedral was able to open when they had done this.

I think seeing a conspiracy on safety has been deeply unhelpful to the camp - it delayed them taking the necessary remedial action and this gave the space for those in the various bodies pressing for eviction to harden in their views, and they have now taken action.

Another very silly own goal.

I'm not sure what you want meditrina to take from Hilltoplady's post, edam? She offered a personal opinion on the H&S aspect (and a lot more besides on the protest itself, on which i make no comment), but I myself can't take from that post that she's an H&S expert or has inside knowledge of the H&S advice the Cathedral was given & by whom....

And breadandbutterfly, as regards the 'can't you read?' bit? I think if Meditrina can write, she can read. I haven't seen any cast iron proof that 'no concerns were expressed?' other than the aforementioned unattributed quote in the Guardian, to which Meditrina responded. Please don't deride one heavily biased paper & expect us to unquestioningly accept another. Give us something more concrete to work from - got any more dispassionate sources you can give us?

She's been there, which is more than anyone else on this thread has. She pointed out they are not in the way, not hindering access to the Cathedral, and the Daily Mail 'story' about tents not being occupied is a big fat lie.

My point re that post still stands...

i think cogito has the wrong end of the stick here; I actually think the church and the protesters are on the same side. Archbishop Rowan Williams has for a long time now been one of the only public figures to speak out openly about the gross injustice and inequality deregulation of the markets has created and he usually recieves a chorus of 'oh do shut up and stick to what you know' from the media when he does so.

I think this is a prime opportunity for him, other followers of Jesus' actual teachings (as opposed to those who've become obsessed with discriminating against women and homosexuals) and anti-capitalists to present a united front against greed and indifference.

clearly someone had "concerns" about the camp, however whether those concerns were really about fire safety is more debatable. Given the comments from the London Fire Brigade the closure of the Cathedral may not have been necessary.

Since I'm not there I don't know if anyone in the camp was asked to make changes or if they were asked whether they delayed before doing so. I rather doubt meditrina or EdithWeston are in any position to know either.

I don't really see the issue. I am not a national, wonder if this is why? Why is it such an inconvenience? Why can't people just go into the church to worship/visit anyway? What's the big deal?

Quite, working. I suspect it was a ludicrous over-reaction to close the Cathedral.

Thing is, this is supposed to be a Church first and foremost, a tourist attraction second. And Christ preached about not storing up wealth on earth, about it being harder for rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven than for a camel to pass through they eye of a needle. There is a moral debate to be had here and the Church should be involved in it, not calling in the bailiffs.

The message from the protestors is far too generalised and vague for their requirements to be met any time soon.

"The alarm bells are ringing all over the world. St Paul's has now heard that call.

"Today's decision means that the doors are most emphatically open to engage with matters concerning not only those encamped around the cathedral but millions of others in this country and around the globe."

Bishop of London, Dr Richard Chartres

I suspect the people who say 'the protesters aren't clear about their aims' are missing the point. What got us into this mess was the false certainty of politicians, bankers, economists and financiers. A deluded consensus that there was approach and one way of looking at the world. I have the impression (but haven't been there in person, so could be wrong) that the protesters are resisting the demand for snap solutions. They are being creative, they are debating, they are thinking and testing ideas and treating everyone's contributions with respect. Out of that process might come something interesting. Or not very much. But it can't be any worse than the false prophets whose groupthink brought the world economy to its knees (apols. for the terrible pun).

Many Christians have been campaigning for social justice over the past 2000 years, which is a bit longer than the protesters have been outside St Pauls.

"The alarm bells are ringing all over the world. St Paul's has now heard that call."