Calls for Help Freeing Up Family Homes

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Free Up Family Homes The charity 'The Intergenerational Foundation' is recommending tax breaks to encourage older people to leave oversized homes. They estimate that there are 25 million unused bedrooms in England. Half of over 65's have 2 or more spare rooms in their home. Housing minister Grant Shapps doesn't sound keen on the idea. But what do you think? Should home-owners and tenants be encouraged to trade down for public-spirited reasons? Or should they be able to rattle around in their multiple spare bedrooms and left alone?

My grandparents, both died within 18 of moving. OK they were 80+, but they were managing pretty happily. Moved into a grant flat at my uncles, lovely place, but upheaval is very stressful

18 months

That's very sad startail. it must be extremely difficult for the elderly to move out although many do manage it well. Was it their choice to move? What were the circumstances?

I wonder if there are any stats on that - it does seem to happen a lot, but it tends to be anecdotal or linked with partner death. These people are just living in what is their home - it really isn't their fault that their homes have given them massive capital and their children and grandchildrens homes are giving them massive debt.

I was pleased my parents could not only live to the end in the family home but also die in it. As people get older they want the comfort and security of what is familiar to them Obviously it depends on the person and some adapt to a smaller place or love a smaller place and others like some kind of residential care but if they worked all their life to buy somewhere and may have paid off the mortgage so only have council tax, heating etc to pay I don't see why they can't stay in their own house however large it is whether a castle, mansion or ex council flat. Indeed no one is saying they should be forced out.

They could be forced out if we introduce property taxes other than council tax as it now is or the house becomes too big to heat and they do not just want to live in one room but simply saying no stamp duty if they move somewhere smaller (and presumably cheaper - you do get richer older couples leaving the £1m suburbs 5 bed house for £1m central London luxury flat)

The cultural shift needs to happen earlier. I don't blame anyone for digging their heels in when the government starts to tell people to move, we're all pretty fed up with the nanny state as it is.

But if people realised, when their children have left home, that it would be kinder en masse to free up some resources for their children's generation, then they would have plenty of time to find somewhere more practical for their next stage of life, and by the time they ARE elderly they will not need to be uprooted again and will be comfortable and have memories etc in their own surroundings.

i think the point is being missed. the shortage of resources could be addressed. but isn;t being addressed adequately. builders are sitting on parcels of land until the economy picks up. careful planning wouldnlt necessarily mean we have to build on greenbelt sites.

if you want to live in a 10 bed house you own and paid for - then thats fine. the shortage of housing is down to bad policy and planning, keeping current housing prices reletively high in an economic slump.

getting people to move in with each other is simply not the point. downsizing for the social good - not the point either - helps keep prices high though, helps keep rich people rich, property developers rich when there is more demand than supply

Builders will build if there are people wanting to buy and if land is available. There is a huge battle going on behind this Government's plan to change planning laws and those wanting to preserve the countryside at present.

Hellm is right that there is no one wanting to buy at the moment in many areas so no homes being built.

As for helping children, I think a lot of parents do try to help. If my other 3 buy this year I would be able to help with a bit of the deposit and would prioritise that over repayment of my own £1m mortgage. I don't think there is any shortage of parents who will choose to help their children if they can afford it. That doesn't however mean that the parents suddenly free of chidlren for once and for the first time in 25 years able to enjoy an empty house have to move into a shoe box and ensure they are never visited by family and grandchildren and they abandon the garden which is their pride and joy.

It's the not visiting or families not being able to afford to visit that is the killer, especially if like us you are abroad. Normally, when we go back in the summer we stay with Mum. We can't again, as ds is 16 and too old to share a room with Mum any more, and she only has two bedrooms. We can't afford hotel prices for 10 days in the summer, so we now either don't go back, or ds stays with Mum and dh and I find somewhere else, or we hire a cottage, but it means more expense, and less to spare on making sure Mum gets meals out and spoiled for the time that we are there.

Can't people sleep on the sofa though or in a tent in the garden? Also he can put up with sharing a room with his granny for a short period at 16. It won't kill him.

Nobody (in original article) is suggesting forcing the elderly anyone out of their homes . In fact looking at it another way they are suggesting tax breaks for the elderly in the form of removing stamp duty.

I think Granny has had enough of sharing with him; there is no garden, and the sofas are uncomfortable to sit on, let alone sleep on.

This is the problem Xenia, it's a small two bed mid terrace, and with 3 adults and 1 adult sized teen there, it gets a bit much.

Erm did anyone else read the man that started it .His elderly parents live alone in a 5 bedroom house .Glass stones and all that

I think the stamp duty issue is risky. How is it done, would sqaure footage come into it?

As I have said I know people who have upsized on retiring or on inheriting from their parents and recieving a lump sum.

Would it really encourage many more additional people to downsize who were not going to anyway? It may just lose the treasury more money as they do not get the duty from those that would be moving regardless of incentives.

Somebody mentioned about how the scheme was covertly trying to convert the property into a more liquid asset that could be used to pay for care....but cash is far more easily hidden (given away and spent).

I believe there should be fewer complications as regards to stamp duty. If you have stamp duty charge it to all (the recent concession to first time buyers is all very well but was it not just a ploy to prop up an over inflated market?). Although I do think the stamp duty bands should always have been moved in relation to house prices as what was originally meant for the more expensive properties now includes more modest homes.

it's a good diea but from a personal perspective (my aprents who are older and in HA housing with spare rooms) the alternative offers they ahve ahd have made the move unworkable, they'd have liked to trade down otehrwise.

The reasons are;

The places offered have been miles away, Dad still works graveyard shifts, can't drive and busess don't run there at that time; he tries to cycle ATM but has no feeling in one leg from the knee down and is losing the ability. I am not sure a seventy year old and a four mile walk at 3am is copatible. He can't afford not to work as his pension was lost (otherwise he'd have bought his own bungalow years ago as per paln).

Mum is sole carer for Grandad whose house she could not reach from suggested area, at 94 I suspect his lence will soon be revoked!

They would lose all contact with friends and neighbours again due to lack of suitable public transport. I live in a different country (withi UK), sisters work very long hours. It would be an incredibly lonely existence for them.

there is an extra factor in that my BIl had to move away to find work post redundancy so my sister is in practical terms (far from emotional I know) a single mum working shifts with 2 boys, parents are only childcarers whoc an manage her 24 hr shifts. Now, that's not a reason not to downgrade but adds up with other factors- with Dad coming and going all hours the kids need a bedroom away from main living room 3 nights a week.

Now I know some people in need of a home will shout at me: please remember I am NOT my Mum and Dad! In fact I am classed as vulenerable to homelessness and could well be at any time so absolutely I get it, but i don't think Mum and dad are wrong either. They would be if the housing offered them were in the same area they are in, mind, but that area is already bult up and new estates are built in the middle of nowhere . Address that, amke alternatives accessible for the many variations of older people including those like Dad who work and yes, absolutely.

Unless you control population no amount of pushing people into smaller places will help. It's just (I love this phrase) 'rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic'

You could build dormitories for single people and force people into them by making everywhere else too expensive. (that one is coming - you heard it here first) That would free up lots of room. Until the population rose and filled up the space.

btw just a thought, but has anyone worked out what the effect would be on the other resources for an area if every bedroom were filled? A more densely packed population means more cars per road, more children per school, more patients for the GP and hospital. More food to be brought into the area on the more overcrowded roads. More strain on water and sewerage supply.

onagar I agree. I really don't know where this idea of the government's came from but now (I think) HB claimants under the age of 30 are only going to be paid the equivalent in local rent of sharing a room in rented accommodation. There was one disabled guy in the local paper whose council rent on his adapted bungalow might no longer be paid because he was no longer allowed by the HB rules to have his own place. So your dormitories are coming I think!

Very worried about"I really don't know where this idea of the government's came from but now (I think) HB claimants under the age of 30 are only going to be paid the equivalent in local rent of sharing a room in rented accommodation."

The age biased is worrying, why is an under thirty different from an over 30 . Family units are of course a separate matter . Surely certain allowances are made for disability (whether through out life or old age) to ensure suitable adaptations, alarms systems and access. I know my grandfathers housing association bungalow is served for elderly/those with mobility issues.

"There was one disabled guy in the local paper whose council rent on his adapted bungalow might no longer be paid because he was no longer allowed by the HB rules to have his own place."
Was it privately rented, if it was social housing would it not have rules about who was allowed to rent it (like my grandfathers place)? I would have thought there were adaption grants etc available- I would have thought disabled get extra HB even as part of disability allowance(not checked though).

Sorry typo: "I know my grandfathers housing association bungalow is saved for elderly/those with mobility issues."

Iggly- only for severe disability: so my autistic sons who will not have a chance of passing ATOS severe tests will not qualify when it's clear that an autistic person is unlikely to cope with shared accom and cold well end up in psychiatric distress, anyone withe ven mildish ASSD can simply not cope with shared living. I foresee a LOT of issues (ASD is my field) with that long term, people with real suffering.

I have a lot of AS traits myself, I tried living in shared accom, when at college. To say it didn't work under estimates it hugely. I won't go into why as it's upsetting but it ahd a devastating effect at the time and lost me my job, relationship and MH.

'Surely certain allowances are made for disability (whether through out life or old age) to ensure suitable adaptations, alarms systems and access

Like you said mobility issues: increasingly people with MH issues and LD are being forgotten. Yet when it comes to housing their needs are on an equal if different footing: they might not need the ground floor flat but they need somewhere themselves.

From Government website :

A grant can be used for essential adaptations to give you better freedom of movement into and around your home and/or to provide essential facilities within it.

If you are disabled, acceptable types of work include:

* widening doors and installing ramps
* providing or improving access to rooms and facilities - for example, by installing a stair lift or providing a downstairs bathroom
* improving or providing a heating system which is suitable for your needs
* adapting heating or lighting controls to make them easier to use
* improving access to and movement around the home to enable you to care for another person who lives in the property, such as a child

An occupational therapist will look at your circumstances and can recommend the type of adaptation(s) needed.

The housing or environmental health department of your local council will be able to give you detailed information when you apply for a Disabled Facilities Grant.

I am concerned about the age issue surely your children if they require help with housing will not require it more after thirty than before?
I hope your sons (sorry no idea of age ) get the support they need.

The age thing is being changed from 21 to 30, to be allowed full HB for single occupancy property rather than shared I believe. The government must think that all single people under 30 should live like students! Will try and find out more but I really skimmed it I'm afraid, as although I am disabled I am over 30 and have a child.

Just found this from Shelter if you look half way down the page you'll see that the shared accommodation rate isn't going to be all you will get to the age of 30, it's 35!!

It seems that social housing tenants and the disabled (only if they need overnight care!) should be OK though.

yes Iggly

but thew change i think people are referring to is different: from April housing benefit rates are changing and if you are under 30 you can only get HB for a separate one room palce if you have severe disability premium paid to you; with teh move to ATOS tick box assessments that focus on physical needs it is increasingly rare for someone with even quite severe ASD / MH / LD issues to get the top rate of DLA- severe payment. So they would be pushed into shared accom. Worryingly for many: certainly ds3 is extremely vulnerable and would be easily manipulated or preyed upon by someone he was sharing with , r at risk from someone who was not accepting of his 'ways' (including strange noises, flapping, obsessions, etc). Yet he does not get severe disabilty premium now (becuase he sleeps: it hinges entirely on whetehr you sleep). No amount of adaptation will change the accom he needs which is supported as a minimum but SSD have already told us that he will not qualify for that as he has an IQ over 60 (even though he can't use most of that due to his condition).

DS1 does get severe disability rpemium ATM but would be unlikely to get PIP (replacement for DLA) as it does concentrate so ehavily on physical needs; he will be able to leave home one day but I would actually be scared for teh safety of anyone who shared with him as he is aggressive and if anyone challnged his screeching or hoarding there'd be issues. SSD admit he may well end up in prison but again he does not hit the 60 IQ criteria and sadly not ebing immortal I cannot house him forever.

I hope I never decline and that I die suddenly becuase th e worst form of torture I can imagine is watching my boys go off into a world that seems to increasingly care nothing for their needs and not be able to help them.

And now I am crying so you will understand I must hide this thread. I relaise people do not get it- my best mate asked today if I had told ds3 that he needs to sort himself out becuase he's not paid taxes and can't expect help; over the summer my BIL advaoctaed euthanasia for them in front of them (ds1 is extremely verbal and understood every word, he is 11 and class rep at his ASD Base comp fgs). I am tired of people and I know people resent us for spending their money but at least they could shut the fuck up in front of me, is that so much to ask? I just want them to be safe and know that they will ahve a roof and a meal.

Sorry