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Father questioned over 'illegal' photographs of daughter

102 replies

LeaveYourDignityAtTheDoor · 10/10/2011 12:32

here

Has anyone else read this?

Is this what our country has come to?

OP posts:
Catkinsthecatinthehat · 13/10/2011 12:39

Badgers has a real point about the police abusing terror legisation, particuarly with regard to photographers. I'm a member of the 'I'm a photographer not a terrorist' campaign. This problem has been going on for a number of years and many many people have been abused by the police on this issue - from professional photographers doing their job, to foreign tourists having their pictures deleted. There is no law against public photography, but too many officials think there should be and are prepared to enforce this 'policy'. Magazines like 'Amateur Photographer' and the 'British Journal of Photography' have been campaigning and lobbying hard on this.

By their very actions in this case the police showed that they didn't believe the man was a terrorist. They told him they had the legal right to wipe his pics. Actually they have no such right. They'd need a court order to do so. And if they really believed him to be undertaking terrorist reconissance, then by wiping his pictures they'd be destroying evidence.

BadgersPaws · 13/10/2011 12:48

"By their very actions in this case the police showed that they didn't believe the man was a terrorist. They told him they had the legal right to wipe his pics"

Defending the police over this for a moment... The Policeman didn't, I believe, threaten to wipe the pictures. It was the Security Guard who made that threat.

Catkinsthecatinthehat · 13/10/2011 13:00

Just checked the interview with the snapper on the Amateur Photographer site. He claims the policeman stated he had the right to confiscate the cameraphone and delete the pics under the Terrorism Act, but would allow the 'terrorist' to keep his property on this occasion as long as he gave his full details! The security guard may also have threatened to do so as well, but the father has now made an official complaint against the police.

Another case featued this week by Amateur Photographer concerned a man who was approach by the police for photographing a public carol concert in the street. He was told that the police were taking the details of all people using cameras in public under the Terrorism Act (he filmed the encounter so there's no dispute). He refused and they arrested him. They've now admitted the arrest was unlawful.

BadgersPaws · 13/10/2011 13:21

"Just checked the interview with the snapper on the Amateur Photographer site. He claims the policeman stated he had the right to confiscate the cameraphone and delete the pics under the Terrorism Act"

Do you have a link for that, I've only read him say that the Security Guard was the one who asked him to delete the photos.

If the Policeman did do that then we step up from abusing a law meant to protect us from terrorists to flat out lying.

AitchTwoOh · 13/10/2011 13:23

ofgs. the guy didn't bother to mention that it was HIS daughter, instead waiting for them to mention it... clearly he was spoiling for a fight. .

BadgersPaws · 13/10/2011 13:26

"clearly he was spoiling for a fight."

And I have no trouble with the Police laying down the law and even arresting idiots for wasting police time, I actually wish they would do that a bit more often.

But that still does not justify abusing vital anti-terror legislation and putting it's existence at risk by eroding public trust and support for it.

AitchTwoOh · 13/10/2011 13:32

the cop didn't abuse it. he just mentioned it. probably in a 'actually i do have the right to do x or y under subsection 4 para 5 of the blah blah blah' sort of a way. abusing it would have been charging him under it.

the guy was let go, with his daughter, camera intact.

he is complaining that the cop and security guard was 'heavy-handed'. well boo hoo. go home and have your dinner and moan to your pals about it. don't start a sodding FB campaign and go on the telly, that's just ridiculous. like the police don't have enough to do right now without handling nobs who won't play nice with shopping centre security guards. i'm glad that the security guard took the concerns of the staff seriously, that's good. and he was backed up by the shop policy. i am absolutely BAFFLED as to why it became an argument in the first place, (why didn't nobbo just tell them she was his daughter?) but clearly it was one long before the police arrived on the scene.

scurryfunge · 13/10/2011 13:37

^What she said^

WhollyGhost · 13/10/2011 14:09

Why on Earth would they not assume that she was his daughter? If they thought she was not in his care, they would surely be trying to track down whoever was responsible for her?

I don't think the Dad was necessarily spoiling for a fight.

AitchTwoOh · 13/10/2011 14:22

here you go, latest statement from the police force. i can translate this for you, because i am scottish. they are saying he was a nob.

Statement re incident at Braehead, 7 October 2011
Rob Shorthouse, Director of Communications for Strathclyde Police said:

?It is absolutely right and proper that when a complaint about the police is made that it is fully investigated. The public need to know that their complaints are taken seriously and are acted upon promptly and professionally. This is exactly what has happened in this incident.

?Mr White complained to the police about the incident in Braehead. In his statement he set out a set of circumstances that has caused widespread debate, comment and criticism for those who he alleged were involved. Mr White chose to make his complaint public, to give interviews to the media and to seek debate on social networks.

?We are well aware that, as a result of this social media conversation, demonstrations are being planned this weekend at Braehead. We have also seen global media coverage of the incident ? all of which has painted the shopping centre, this police force and, arguably, our country in a very negative light.

?It is because Mr White chose to seek publicity for his account of events and because of the planned demonstration that we feel compelled to take the unusual step of making our findings public.

?In reaching our conclusions, officers took statements from a number of independent witnesses and viewed the substantial amount of CCTV that was available in the centre.

?On reviewing all of this objective evidence, I have to tell you that we can find no basis to support the complaint which Mr.White has elected to make.

?The members of the public who asked for the security staff to become involved have told us that they did so for reasons which had absolutely nothing to do with him taking photographs of his daughter. They had a very specific concern, which I am not in a position to discuss publicly, that they felt the need to report. It was because of this very specific concern that security staff became involved. They were right to raise their concern and we are glad that they did so.

?The security staff were the ones who asked for police involvement. Again, this was not because Mr White said he had been photographing his daughter, but was due to the concerns that they themselves had regarding this particular incident.

?When our officers became involved they did not confiscate any items, nor was Mr White questioned under counter terrorist legislation. It is wrong to suggest that the police spoke to Mr White because he claimed he had been photographing his daughter, or that officers made any reference to counter terror legislation. Mr.White knows, or ought to know, why our officers spoke with him.

?Since Mr White chose to publish his version of events on Facebook, we have seen substantial traditional media and social media activity around the story. People have been very quick to offer their opinions on this issue and were very keen to accept Mr White?s story as the only evidence that was available. Clearly this was not the case.

?Social media allowed this story to spread quickly around the world. I hope that the same media allows this part of the tale to move just as quickly.

?For the avoidance of any doubt, we have fully investigated this incident and we can say that none of the independent and objective evidence presented to us by either the members of the public or the CCTV backs up the claims made by Mr White.?

BadgersPaws · 13/10/2011 14:38

"here you go, latest statement from the police force. i can translate this for you, because i am scottish. they are saying he was a nob."

So it boils down to a "he said/she said" scenario....

It's interesting to note that the Police are flat out denying any mention of the terrorism laws at all, which is at least an admission by them that doing so would have been utterly inappropriate. They're not even trying the "well he just mentioned it in passing" defence, because it's no defence at all.

So yes the police are saying he's a nob.

And they're possibly right.

But there have been numerous cases where it's been shown that the police have abused the anti-terror laws so it's not an impossibility. This certainly wouldn't be the first time the Police have overstepped the mark when it comes to photographers and then tried to lie about it and cover it up.

AitchTwoOh · 13/10/2011 14:47

lol, badger. or they may not have mentioned it because it was never said, just as was originally the story before nobbo dad started getting into it and giving out interviews to amateur lensman mag. Hmm who knows?

but there is no way that the cops would would be daft enough to release such a strong statement unless they were sure every single person of the hundreds of folk that must have been milling around that day would agree with it. all it needs is for one person to back up nobdad and they're scuppered.

scurryfunge · 13/10/2011 14:49

It doesn't boil down to he said/she said scenario at all. It boils down to independent and objective material that gives a better picture of what really happened.

WhollyGhost · 13/10/2011 15:03

The police statement is what I'd have expected

and it does not tie in with Braehead's initial statement.

which itself was an example of godawful stupidity

AitchTwoOh · 13/10/2011 15:08

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d5wxjLE9TdA#!

by his own testimony it does sound like he was more than a bit nobbish with them, you have to admit.

and he's a bit of a liar... says that it started with his own fb post then 'gained momentum'... well that's because he started an fb page, isn't it? and emailed all the papers? and he's moaning to the BBC about how it was a child protection issue when he says here that his girl was crying all over him throughout?

Fuckedupagain · 13/10/2011 15:11

I second Aitch. Nob. Who clearly wanted to get on his soapbox and have his 10 minutes of fame.

HerdOfTinyElephants · 13/10/2011 15:11

Hmm. But if ?The members of the public who asked for the security staff to become involved have told us that they did so for reasons which had absolutely nothing to do with him taking photographs of his daughter. They had a very specific concern, which I am not in a position to discuss publicly, that they felt the need to report. It was because of this very specific concern that security staff became involved. They were right to raise their concern and we are glad that they did so."

then why did the shopping centre make a point of saying "At no time in the initial conversation was the member of our security staff informed by the man that the child in question was his daughter."?

There's something here that none of the people involved is telling us. At least the police are being up front about the fact that there's something they are not telling us, though.

AitchTwoOh · 13/10/2011 15:39

yes, that is weird. esp as she was sitting on his lap crying at the time.

WhollyGhost · 13/10/2011 15:51

whatever it is, it will surely come out

unless the icecream staff and security personell have all taken vows of silence

AitchTwoOh · 13/10/2011 15:58

they will almost certainly be in breach of contract if they talk to press about something that happened at work, though.

JeremyVile · 13/10/2011 17:10

So the bloke was just a twatty attention seeker after all?

Well blow me down...

AitchTwoOh · 13/10/2011 17:21

yes i was reading the thread back, Jezza. looks like you nailed it early doors.

AitchTwoOh · 13/10/2011 17:24

tbh any dealings i've ever had with glasgay's finest, they couldn't have been nicer. such as when they called an ambulance for me and cared for my daughters on sunday when i came a cropper in the street. i think they do a hard job and hate all this kneejerk 'they iz bad' stuff. this man white is clearly an absolute tosspot.

BadgersPaws · 13/10/2011 17:33

"hate all this kneejerk 'they iz bad' stuff"

It's not kneejerk at all, the police do have a history of abusing the vitally important anti-terror laws in order to harass and detain photographers.

So this story could have been, and could still be, yet another sad example of that. The police have lied before when it comes to this sort of issue.

However if this man has pounced onto the bandwagon of those that have suffered due to the police overstepping the mark then I'll be right there beside you to yell "nobber" at him.

AitchTwoOh · 13/10/2011 17:44

actually, i also dislike talking about 'the police' when there are so many police forces with such varied areas to attend to.