Johann Hari apology

[WidowWadman]

Sorry he says. And he gives the Orwell price back and he's gonna take unpaid leave until 2012 and even do some training.

About right or got off lightly? Discuss

Edam - politics is part of the issue. The left are consistently accused of distorting facts for ideological reasons. It is endemic, from your conspiracy theory anarchist right up to the 'objective' BBC.

You may not agree with me, but the discourse is intense and a matter of record. That makes it very much an issue.

LeBOF - is it really that unreserved? There was no mention of the plagiarism of the Der Spiegel article and the apology makes it out that he's giving the Orwell price back out of his own volition even though he stands by his submission, however it was the Indy who asked the Orwell price committee not to announce their ruling. I also feel that he's playing the enormity of his actions down quite a bit

Ah, well, that puts it in a less flattering light, I agree.

Because he'd written a couple of articles I liked (one was an exposé of a man who was

How did he have time to write any of his articles? His dedication to his sock-puppeteering seemed like a full time job in itself. All very bizarre and incredibly childish.

Of course it's shitty, underhand and unprofessional. But lots of people are. No point the rest of world getting all holier than thou about it- it happens all the time, he won't be the only one.

I'm sure there must be others but you have to admit it is all a bit strange. He has managed to make himself look like a right tit and I know he has apologised (and I don't think he should leave the Independent) but it will be interesting to see if he can shake the "right tit" label in the future.

It's very odd, isn't it? It reminds me a bit of the Giles Waring Haters' Club or something.

Wasn't there some weird thing about how he got into journalism in the first place? I remember him [old gimmer emoticon] getting a job on the Indie straight out of university, he was supposed to be some sort of child prodigy or something....

Maybe I'm being niave, but I think he's unlikely to really go back to the independent next year. If he does I doubt they will let him write the same kind of pieces. It would be very foolish of them if they let him...

Boulevard - yeah, I think that's a fundamental flaw, he never had any training. Being published as a journalist, someone who is supposed to base their reporting on facts (even if those facts are merely the starting point for a rhetorical flourish), with no training, is ruddy dangerous. Some people can learn on the job, but they are usually a. very attentive and keen to learn from their colleagues and b. people who have taken the trouble to attend a few courses while working.

Hari seemed far too arrogant and convinced of his own cleverness to bother about basic ethical and practical standards. Allowing him to be published is a bit like letting someone drive a car without bothering to have any lessons, let alone a test.

Jeez give the guy a break. We all screw up sometimes. He's had the misfortune to do it in public. How many of us would offer such a comprehensive apology for the shit we've done in our lives?

Another Jack of Kent Post on the enormity of the David Rose bit

readinginbed the apology was the opposite of comprehensive when you look at the extent of what he's done.

That said - the creation and maintenance of all these sockpuppets shows some talent and despite his fraudulent activities he does have writing talent, so he might have a future in fiction - not saying this to be facetious.

readinginbed wtf?

Widowwadman - that's another good blog post, thanks.

The comments are also worth a read. One commenter, Stuart Brown, made an interesting point about Hari's work.

"For instance, a while back I heard him on a podcast (Little Atoms, I think), being pretty good on the anti-cuts agenda, and he was throwing out stats and info to back it up. One little item which stuck and which I have repeated to others now was a demonstration of exactly how out of touch Cameron is, in that he once said of Samantha that (I paraphrase) "people think she's very establishment but she's actually quite unconventional: she went to a day school." A nice quote showing that Cameron is so absorbed in the elite that simply "not boarding" is unconventional to him. I now have no idea whether this quote is true or not. "

Now - I had just been reading that Hari himself attended a private day school, which is affiliated to, and somewhat in the shadow of, Harrow Public School. Of course it may have been a genuine Cameron quote - but it's interesting how it reflects Hari's own personal childhood experience.

reading - he didn't make one mistake, he's made a habit of plagiarism. And then gone to extraordinary lengths to cover it up. He didn't apologise until he was forced to.

Staying away from journalism for 4 months whilst retraining -do book reviews not count as journalism?

Oh, I misread it, it was only a sabbatical from the Indy, not from paid writing in general

i think it's outrageous he keeps his job. The only thing a journalist has is their reputation and his is shot, IMO. The Economist has some things to say about his supposed apology, and how he basically blames his sources for not having had interesting or coherent things to say when he interviewed them, hence his need to draw upon their earlier quotes to others. As the Economist points out, an interview is only as good as the two people involved - if he is unable to draw newsmakers out to say newsworthy things that's no one's fault but his own.

He will get short shrift at Columbia Journalism School from the students and professors who still have respect for the craft.

His prior lack of training is absolutely no excuse. The majority of journalists are "untrained." It doesn't take a trained journalist to recognise that you don't manufacture quotes!

Chandelina, on reflection I think you are right. Lack of training is no excuse for dishonesty. God knows we've all had tough interviews where you really are struggling to get someone to say something worth writing up, but inventing quotes or stealing someone else's work is clearly wrong, let alone all that bollocks cover-up.

Initially he said he looked for quotes from non-English-speaking people's writing when he found that the words on the interview tape he had were not easy to write up: a bit mumbly or jumbled. He felt he knew what they meant.

I do wonder how other journalists manage to interview non-English-speakers then? Or maybe they have a better dictaphone?