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Original poster

David Cameron challenged over HIS past as a rioting youth...

64 replies

SpeedyGonzalez · 03/09/2011 12:31

here Listen from 11.21 onwards.

Sounds like Cam wants us to believe that when kids from housing estates smash up shops, it's because they're from morally bankrupt families and they should to go to prison. But when he and his wealthy, well-connected Oxford Uni buddies did it back in the 80s, it was just your run-of-the-mill mistakes of youths and all they needed was a slap on the wrist (and possibly mummy and daddy to step in with their cheque books?).

Hmm

I am struggling to see how he's not being hypocritical. Can someone illuminate?

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CrosswordAddict · 04/09/2011 08:03

Speedy Blair and Brown couldn't even stand the sight of each other. So why should voters like them?
I agree with you tbh. Blair was in a league of his own when it came to double-dealing and total unworthiness.
It's just that I had high hopes of Cameron and he keeps on letting me down [sa]

levantine · 04/09/2011 08:04

I don't file the Bullingdon club's vandalsim under the category youthful transgression actually. A twenty year old is a grown man, not a child.

My male friends at university (fag end of last Tory government) wouldn't have dreamed of smashing up restaurants, they just wouldn't have. Nor would my brother or any of the boys/men I grew up with. They might have smoked too much hash done other stupid things, but that sort of vandalism - no.

Also, without wanting to sound pious about it, several of my flatmates over those years did voluntary work - fundraising, taking kids from deprived areas on weekend trips that sort of thing. They weren't youthful blips any more than the Bullingdon's behaviour iyswim.

motherinferior · 04/09/2011 10:19

I certainly do not want only people in power who have lived 'squeaky clean lives' - anything but. However, I think if you've had a spot of vandalism going on in your youth it would be a better idea to talk about this openly.

levantine · 04/09/2011 18:37

No me neither MI, but not all twenty year olds behave like that, it's not just something that everyone does as a rite of passage which sometimes seems to be the implication

motherinferior · 04/09/2011 18:39

Oh no, I totally agree. Most of us didn't, after all.

EdithWeston · 04/09/2011 18:45

The Bullingdon is a vile institution.

But no-one has ever placed DC (or any other current high profile politico) at an event where criminal damage took place (whether or not arrests/charges followed) There were also plenty of (very drunken) events where no criminality occurred. Unsubstantiated vague mudslinging does not (unfortunately) make a sufficient case.

edam · 04/09/2011 19:37

There are claims that Cameron was indeed at a Bullingdon club do where people broke a restaurant's windows, but everyone is keeping VERY quiet about it. Who knows, but it's certainly true that the Bullingdon has always been a bunch of hooligans who have caused criminal damage and got away with it.

EdithWeston · 04/09/2011 20:22

"there are claims" - that's exactly what I mean by the unsubstantiated nature of the vague mudslinging.

It's a weak diversion from the real issues of incompetence in current policy.

edam · 04/09/2011 21:10

Not a weak diversion at all - exposing rank hypocrisy. If you are a rich adult who went from Eton to Oxford, it's fine to behave like a hooligan, if you are ordinary or poor and went to a state school, you get prosecuted and may well be imprisoned.

Cameron may or may not have been there when the window was broken but it is a fact that he was a member of the Bullingdon and that the Bullingdon behave like yobs - breaking windows, smashing up restaurants, smashing up other people's rooms. And they are adults.

If it's fine for him to say 'we all do stupid things when we are young' of himself (which is all he will say about his behaviour in the Bullingdon) then why isn't the same understanding and tolerance extended to young people in less fortunate circumstances?

I'm sure they had prayers and religious Assemblies at Eton, he must have heard the Gospel story about looking for the log in your own eye before you criticise the speck of dust in another's.

Original poster
SpeedyGonzalez · 05/09/2011 01:02

Freddy, are you saying that if you have enough money you should be allowed to buy your way out of rightful criminal prosecution? And that if you don't then it's tough shit? I thought we were meant to be striving for democracy. Quick, somebody tell the Libyans to stop fighting, it's all a farce!

Crossword, it is always a letdown when those in power let us down. But if you always assume that at some point all of them will let us down, you'll feel less let down. Grin

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cory · 08/09/2011 08:05

The hypocrisy lies in the assumption that if poor people smash up other people's property it is the result of poor parenting and a broken society, but if rich people do the same thing it is just youthful high spirits and nothing to worry about.

vanfurgston · 08/09/2011 13:12

wat is it u would have him do?

edam · 08/09/2011 13:23

van - I'd like him to stop being such an outrageous hypocrite and snob. Stop pretending that vandalism by the poor/ordinary people is morally reprehensible but it's fine when it's the rich.

Original poster
SpeedyGonzalez · 09/09/2011 00:12

He is coming over all Daily Mail about it, which is vile and frankly rather stupid. I would like him to NOT do the knee-jerk thing, which we Brits are terribly good at in the face of disasters. To our cost. I would like him to have shown that his ears are bigger than his mouth and that he believes in listening and considering problems rather than shooting first, asking later.

There is to be a enquiry into the riots, organised by a multi-party group (not political parties). If DC was worth his salt he'd put his weight behind it, give it all the support it needs and actually listen to the findings and act on them.

Politics suffers from a horrible disease of being reliant on creating short-term 'successes'. As a result, we limp miserably from one societal mess to another, without a clue how to really solve our problems.

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claig · 09/09/2011 00:31

'He is coming over all Daily Mail about it'

it's about time

claig · 09/09/2011 00:35

'I would like him to have shown that his ears are bigger than his mouth and that he believes in listening and considering problems rather than shooting first, asking later.'

do you mean he should have a New Labour 'Big Conversation' with the rioters, arsonists and looters?

Original poster
SpeedyGonzalez · 09/09/2011 00:36

Claig, whenever I see your name I always think 'Clegg'! Grin I'm sure that's not what you intended, right?

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claig · 09/09/2011 00:38

I know, I've had to seriously think about changing it.

Original poster
SpeedyGonzalez · 09/09/2011 00:38

Do you have specific criticisms of that New Labour project, or are you using it to make a somewhat mocking illustration?

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claig · 09/09/2011 00:43

Yes, I think the New Labour 'Big Conversation' was just more New Labour cynical spin, dreamt up by their finest spin doctors to fool the naive members of the public. Cameron is a breath of fresh air, no spin, no bull, just sensible policies. No need for a 'Bog Conversation' with the hoodies, just action.

Original poster
SpeedyGonzalez · 09/09/2011 00:54

Wrt the Big Convo I don't know enough about it so even though I loathe Blair spin and can well believe it was more of the same crap, I won't bullshit you by making up a response (see why I revile knee-jerk reactions? WinkGrin).

As for Cam's reaction, no. There you are wrong. I was as blindsided by the riots as possibly the majority of the country. But I have spoken to several people who said they'd had a feeling for a while that something was brewing. So people like me and Cam and all the rest of us who had no idea this stuff was simmering have to be honest and say that we have been out of touch with a portion of society. We have to listen to those who do know better than us about this stuff. I've already mentioned the inquiry - not sure who commissioned it, but if it was Cam then all credit to him. Community leaders who are in touch with this stuff will be consulted, among others such as, I think, teachers and other experts/ community workers. I would trust that report far more than Cam's current Daily Mail knee-jerkery.

Wrt your name, can I suggest Clameron? Clamouron? Glamouron? Grin

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Original poster
SpeedyGonzalez · 09/09/2011 00:59

remember this?

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claig · 09/09/2011 01:03

'We have to listen to those who do know better than us about this stuff.'

I agree, that's why I listen to the Daily Mail. We know what the community leaders will say - more youth centres and more money. That's not the answer, as this is a moral malaise, not an economic one. The 9 year old looters indicate that this is a moral breakdown. The community leaders don't have the answer.

Those are good names, but the best is Cameron.

claig · 09/09/2011 01:07

Yes, the 'hug a hoodie' message was a big mistake. I think Cameron was probably swayed by some progressive PR spin doctors of the New Labour ilk. If only he had listened to the Daily Mail, he would nevver had made such a progressive faux pas.

Original poster
SpeedyGonzalez · 09/09/2011 01:31

You are very funny! Grin Are you Armando Iannucci?

How many 9 year old looters were there, as a proportion of the whole? Fewer than a handful? Or maybe even just one?

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