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Michael Gove slackens rules on use of physical force in schools

74 replies

Triggles · 02/09/2011 07:53

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/sep/01/michael-gove-physical-force-schools

I'm curious what people think of this. On one hand, I understand teachers need to have more authority in the classroom, however, I'm not really sure this is the way to go either.

OP posts:
Feenie · 02/09/2011 12:50

Indeed. Cannot see how this will change my job description in any way, shape or form.

Also, we have MNers on here having a fit because a teacher has shouted at their child, fgs. They are not going to like a teacher laying a finger on their child.

TheFallenMadonna · 02/09/2011 12:50

The only difference is that you won't have to record it. Unless your school says you do presumably, which they will, presumably...

Malcontentinthemiddle · 02/09/2011 12:50

What do you think would have helped there, vicki?

Feenie · 02/09/2011 12:51

You'd be daft not to record it though, just to cover your back when the parents inevitably get arsey.

vickibee · 02/09/2011 12:53

Just pointing out the the behaviou of some young adults is out of control and support systems need to be in place to help staff dealing with situations like this. Someone you can call on in an emergency - he should have been removed immediately with someone with more clout than me. There were no consequences for his actions only for my non-action?

TheFallenMadonna · 02/09/2011 12:53

Exactly. Honestly, how is this being spun the way it is?

TheFallenMadonna · 02/09/2011 12:54

The exactly was in response to Feenie.

TheFallenMadonna · 02/09/2011 12:55

Cuckoo. This would have bugger all effect on the situation you describe.

Malcontentinthemiddle · 02/09/2011 12:55

It sounds as though in your case the problem was more that the head did not respond to your request for assistance than that you couldn't restrain the lad, yes? It does sound badly managed.
We do have senior staff who can be called on in such situations - not in order to do anything physical, though!

TheFallenMadonna · 02/09/2011 12:56

Cuckoo? WTF? vicki!!! Predictive whatsit...

Feenie · 02/09/2011 12:56

God knows, TheFallenMadonna. Most of the media is portraying it as carte blanche for teachers to use violence to keep the 'underclass' in check.

Vile vocabulary from our esteemed Education Secretary there.

Malcontentinthemiddle · 02/09/2011 13:00

I presume this would come under the umbrella of 'tough love' as described by Hameron this morning?
Sometimes, you just gotta love these hoodies into line..... you have to take away the funding for repairing the roofs in their schools, and you have to take their EMA, and you have to hold them down in a restraining position ... in the name of tough love. Cos if you don't they'll be straight down footlocker to impregnate a babymother and lie in bed all day while alarm clock britain pays the price.....

aftereight · 02/09/2011 13:01

"So would you all be happy for your child to be man-handled out of a room if the teacher thought it necessary, in whatever way the teacher thought best?"

Yes, I would. If my child was being disruptive or threatening. Hopefully this will make a tiny dent in the damaging culture of entitlement which has sprung up over the past decade.

aquos · 02/09/2011 13:02

I like Michael Gove.

I like what he is trying to do.

But then I'm not one of those kind of parents that marches up to school to complain every time my child is told off. If my child was manhandled out of a classroom I would assume there was bloody good reason for such action and support the teacher without question.

Too many parents do complain and are not supportive of teachers. The teachers need to feel that they have 'rights' too. We expect teachers, social workers and police officers to function with one hand tied behind their backs.

A shift in public perception is required and I think that is what Michael Gove is about with this latest announcement.

Malcontentinthemiddle · 02/09/2011 13:04
Biscuit
TheFallenMadonna · 02/09/2011 13:06

But he isn't changing any of the guidines on actual restraint. Only whether or not it needs to be recorded. Which we will all do anyway to cover ourselves. What is it you think he is trying to do here? And what do you like about it?

ASByatt · 02/09/2011 13:13

aquos - I 'm guessing then that you are not a teacher?

Have you noticed that the teachers on here don't think that it's a good idea?

Alibabaandthe80nappies · 02/09/2011 13:20

I would be happy for mine to be manhandled out of the classroom - and all the way home where I could tear a strip off them for being so badly behaved and disrespectful.

I think it is a good idea.

aquos · 02/09/2011 13:20

No I'm not a teacher.

Is this thread for teachers only? Or are only teachers allowed to have views on it?

Why do teachers not think it's a good idea?

Feenie · 02/09/2011 13:21

The idea you are referring to is that we no longer record children being manhandled.

We think that's a silly idea - we need to record it to cover our backs, it's common sense.

ASByatt · 02/09/2011 13:21

aquos your views are just as valid as anyone else's!

I was just suggesting that as a parent you might have a different view to the teachers who are actually going to be in these challenging situations, that is all.

TheFallenMadonna · 02/09/2011 13:22

Because all it is is a matter of recording or not. And I would always record. Otherwise there is NO difference, and it is all empty spin. Why do you think it is a good idea?

aquos · 02/09/2011 13:36

I think it's a good idea because it's about public perception. Governments are always reannouncing old policies. Giving the announcements the right spin at the right time is all about public perception.

I can see that what Mr Goves announced doesn't actually change the way that teachers will handle things day to day, but if it changes public perception, if pupils and parents perceive that teachers have more control over their own classrooms might that not feed into pupils behaviour and parents supporting teachers in managing behaviour?

Does that make sense? Rather a garbled paragraph I know.

ASByatt · 02/09/2011 14:05

Having had pupils do that whole, "you lay one finger on me and my dad will find you and smash your head in" business far many times to mention, I can't see this making any real difference, but now Mr Gove will prattle on about how he is offering real support to schools and kid himself that he's in touch with reality.

Sorry, this is not the thread for me to be on on the last Friday of the holidays!
[scuttles back to paperwork emoticon]

niceguy2 · 02/09/2011 14:12

So would you all be happy for your child to be man-handled out of a room if the teacher thought it necessary, in whatever way the teacher thought best?

Yes absolutely. And once I'd got hold of my child, they'd get another pasting for making such a situation in the first place and not doing as the teacher told initially.

I think we need to make a huge distinction here. Just because they can...doesn't mean they will. It's like the police can use reasonable force. It doesn't mean they will automatically taser a guy for driving 33mph in a 30mph zone.

It's about giving teachers the support IF they feel they need to do something. For too long teachers have felt powerless. I note some teachers think they don't need the powers. Great...perfect....don't use them. But they are there for the times you need to without having to worry about the repercussions on your job, getting sued and reams of paperwork.