To ask pro-choice MNers to email your MPs? <this is not a request to vote on anything>

[EricNorthmansMistressOfPotions]

There is an article here about the proposed amendments to the health and social care bill which will force women to undergo 'independent' counselling before being allowed to choose to terminate a pregnancy. The assumption is that BPAS and the like have a financial investment in encouraging women to terminate and as such their counselling is biased. The stated goal is to reduce the number of terminations per year by forcing women to delay between seeking and receiving termination, and having to undergo additional counselling (political bias unknown, though easily guessed at) prior to the termination. ND hopes that woman will change their minds during this enforced extended waiting period.

If you think this is a shit idea you can email your MP by clicking this link

This is not a request to vote on anything at all

[MmeLindor.]

Mitmoo this is a few years old. Will try to find out what the current status quo is.

[crazynanna]

Done

[Mitmoo]

banjaxed It is what it is loaded or not, not sure what else to call them.

Stewie I can see the argument that abortion clinics have a vested interest in abortions happening.

Raven I'm sure too many are relieved, many people phoned in anonymously, they could have done the same aren't Life Pro Life?

[WilsonFrickett]

Mitmoo if you can see the arguement that abortion clinics 'have a vested interest in abortions happening' then surely you can also see that anti-abortion groups would have a vested interest in abortions not happening? Please don't kid yourself that they wouldn't be all over this like a rash, in fact a consortium of anti-abortion groups have recently been invited to sit on a govt committee or similar, can't remember offhand but will try to find the link.

[WilsonFrickett]

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/may/24/abortion-sexual-health-coalition

Here

[aliceliddell]

Thanks for posting this! I'd put something on another thread, but with no useful link to any action, so this is great!

[Sn0wflake]

Have emailed.

[marriedinwhite]

Before I'm flamed and this is a genuine question, if women don't want babies why can't they use contraception responsibly. I fully agree that women/girls can make mistakes but surely after the first time lessons should be learned and beyond that they cannot continue to look to abortion as an alternative to contraception and should not, under any circumstances, expect a contraceptive abortion to be provided free of charge. The NHS in my opinion was set up to deal with disease not carelessness.

[Empusa]

"Before I'm flamed and this is a genuine question, if women don't want babies why can't they use contraception responsibly."

Contraception can fail.

I should know, I got pregnant on the pill (99.3% effective according to my GP)!! Luckily for me it was a wonderful surprise, but others aren't so lucky.

[bumbleymummy]

How can an abortion clinic offer independent advice when they make money from performing abortions?

[MrGin]

How can an abortion clinic offer independent advice when they make money from performing abortions?

They are not for profit organizations. They make no money from abortions.

[Empusa]

bumbley Most of those clinics do not just perform abortions, they are more than a one trick pony - unlike pro-life counsellors.

[BooBooGlass]

They recieve money from the NHS as the NHS cannot cope with demand. I hardly see reams of business men opening family planning clinics as big money spinners.

[bumbleymummy]

Well if they get paid by the NHS then they're still getting paid. I don't think they do it for nothing!

[marriedinwhite]

Empusa - I said mistakes can be made. Are you suggesting that every unwanted pregnancy is because the woman was on the pill and taking it in accordance with the instructions, or that every time the coil failed, or the condom broke? I will take considerable convincing.

[Vallhala]

There's so much wrong with your post married that I don't know where to start.

Perhaps with the fact that contraception should be a JOINT responsibility? Or that it can fail, no matter how well used? Or that it is possible for failure/mistakes to be made more than once (unless you're divine of course)? Or that there is no evidence to suggest that abortion is used as an alternative to contraception in the majority of cases and that therefore your version of events could condemn thousands of women to a miserable life in all manner of ways?

[WilsonFrickett]

the NHS was set up to deal with disease, not carelessness

So by that logic the NHS shouldn't treat smokers, drinkers or the obese? What about people who 'make a mistake' and wrap their car round a tree through a moment of 'carelessness', should the NHS treat them or leave them by the roadside?

[bumbleymummy]

Ok - x post.

[DharmaLovesDraco]

I've emailed mine x

[WilsonFrickett]

Well if they get paid by the NHS then they're still getting paid. I don't think they do it for nothing

They get paid, but they do not make a profit. The payment from the NHS covers things like staff, facilities and other costs like conselling. That is why these organisations are charities, not businesses.

[WilsonFrickett]

Sorry, that last was to bubblemummy

[Empusa]

bumbley No shit, how else do you think they afford the staff and equipment. Does it grow on trees?

married I was merely pointing out that accidents happen. As do rapes. As do discovering that the baby is too disabled to go to term. Or finding out the mum couldn't carry to term safely. And yes, some are people being irresponsible. Though I suspect that the figures are higher for the other groups, especially due to the availability of the MAP.

[puzzlesum]

Surely abortion clinics are only pro-abortion to the same degree that all healthcare providers are pro-treatment that they can charge back to your commissioner? By that argument, the renal unit would have you on dialysis as soon as look at you, and the cardiac unit would have whipped your heart out before you knew what was what. (An exaggeration - obviously). And I assume the clinic can also charge back the counselling activity, irrespective of whether the woman decides to have an abortion or not.

But whilst I'm sure there are examples of clinically inappropriate treatment (or non-treatment) caused by financial costs/rewards, this is extremely unusual for two reasons: professional ethics and clinical oversight. Has any PCT expressed concern that its population may have been pressurised into having abortions (which it has to fund)? Not to my knowledge. I would have thought that, before establishing the need to change the law (not best practice guidelines), some actual evidence would need to be produced that our soon-to-be-independent groups of commissioners are not able to decide for themselves what type of provision is best for their population.

I also worry that this will allow all manner of other clauses in the Bill to go undebated because this issue is (understandably) a very emotive one. It does not seem to me to belong in this Bill.