To ask pro-choice MNers to email your MPs? <this is not a request to vote on anything>

[EricNorthmansMistressOfPotions]

There is an article here about the proposed amendments to the health and social care bill which will force women to undergo 'independent' counselling before being allowed to choose to terminate a pregnancy. The assumption is that BPAS and the like have a financial investment in encouraging women to terminate and as such their counselling is biased. The stated goal is to reduce the number of terminations per year by forcing women to delay between seeking and receiving termination, and having to undergo additional counselling (political bias unknown, though easily guessed at) prior to the termination. ND hopes that woman will change their minds during this enforced extended waiting period.

If you think this is a shit idea you can email your MP by clicking this link

This is not a request to vote on anything at all

[AliceWyrld]

Done. Will look forward to my MP ignoring me, yet again.

[Empusa]

The wording on the e-petition doesn't really explain the concerns about "counselling" being madatory etc.

[BooBooGlass]

Done, I trust Ben Bradshaw to vote the right way on this one, I really have a lot of time for him. But how bloody vile that in 2011 politicians still think they can dictate our control of our bodies. Fuck the lot of them who vote for this shit.

[Empusa]

Emailed my MP, he's usually pretty good, so hopefully he'll take a stand.

Funny, I've become even more strongly pro-choice since getting pregnant.

[Mitmoo]

I have changed my mind on this since listening to a debate this morning on radio five live. I don't know how to link up a podcast but sure others smarter than me can do it.

The women are not being forced to seek independent counsellors but the proposal is that they are given the option of seeing a counsellor who is not employed by the abortion clinics. They haven't figured out how it will be financed yet.

The argument is that the abortion clinics have a vested interest in women having abortions and although they are charities it does keep them in work. I listened to the phone in and there were many women who phoned in who felt they were on a conveyor belt, pushed towards the abortion, not much emphasis on how to cope with the baby and what support they could expect when it was born.

One woman phone in and her voice was just broken, heartbreaking, she'd been beating herself up since she had an abortion in 1986 and turned to alcohol to block it out. That was just one story.

The woman from the abortion clinic, can't remember her name now, but she didn't have many answers for them apart from to say the counselling should have established the woman's choice but without exception from the calls I heard the women felt badly let down.

I would not sign the petition because I don't know enough about what happens now and am uncomfortable with the counsellors not being independently employed but employed by the abortion clinics. They should neither be from religious groups nor abortion clinics as neither can claim independence.

I hope someone can find the podcast as I started off thinking "not again, more government interference" to thinking, yep there is something wrong with the current way we are doing things, heavily influenced, by the weak arguments of the spokeswoman and the stories of those who called in.

[Mitmoo]

Booboo its my understanding that they want women to have the choice to see an independent counsellor, not that it will compulsory for them to see one.

If it is another choice for women I see that as a good thing. If it was mandatory then it would be a very bad thing. If my understanding is correct and it's a true, honest real choice then I'm OK with that. Compulsory then your comments would stand 100%.

[BooBooGlass]

Do you rely think a motion put forward by a pro-lifer has women's best interests at heart though? I don't think she's thinking of the women here one bit.

[bumbleymummy]

Good posts mitmoo. I was wondering if I'd missed something because independent counselling sounded like a good idea to me. Surely having it funded by an abortion clinic is just as biased as having it funded by a pro-life organisation. Shouldn't you be objecting to that too?

[bumbleymummy]

Booboo - despite popular MN opinion, being pro-life does not make you 'anti-women'. I don't know anything this woman to comment on her own personal beliefs but I don't think you can generalise about 'pro-lifers' any more than you can generalise about 'pro-choicers'.

[Mitmoo]

Bumbley again careful reading is needed on that issue of it being funded by pro-life organisations. The abortion clinics are saying "It COULD be funded by religious pro-life groups" not that is has even been suggested that pro-life groups would fund it. I would be against that naturally bumbley it would be wrong as women deserve choice not railroading by one vested interest group or another.


In all honesty I see that as the abortion clinics scaremongering . I can't see a Catholic agency being able to be involved with abortions in any manner shape or form. They wouldn't even keep open the Catholic adoption agencies when it became clear they would have to consider placing children with gay couples. I can't see them being able to be independent counsellors on the abortion issue.

I just can't see that happening and the abortion clinics aren't saying it will happen just that it could in their opinion. That's misleading and rather naughty IMO.

[banjaxedfilly]

"abortion clinic" is a loaded phrase.

Makes me think of this www.theonion.com/articles/planned-parenthood-opens-8-billion-abortionplex.

The outrage this prompted was hilarious.

[edam]

Very good questions, spoons.

Mitmoo, that's a very sad story, but one person's experience isn't sufficient reason to change the law. Especially when it's extremely unusual. And presumably to do with a whole host of very individual factors.

[MmeLindor.]

Mitmoo
Catholic agencies are involved in abortion counselling in Germany, so why would it not happen in UK?

I think that this is a terrible idea.

If the government truly wants INDEPENDENT counselling, then they have to put their money where their mouth is and fund it.

[Mitmoo]

Stewie Abortion clinics aren't pro-abortion. They are pro-choice. They help women with the decision that is best for them; whether that be abortion or giving birth or adoption.

It came over on R5Live this morning that this is what they were supposed to do but many of the women described being herded through the system and the counselling a box ticking exercise, clearly they can't talk for everyone but the stories that were being told this morning and R5L are a well respected phone in channel, were pretty horrific showing that in many cases what should have happened didn't and the women were left emotional wrecks at the end of the process. No aftercare either. One woman was even told to stop crying because she was upsetting the other patients.

I'm no longer convinced it was a rosy as I thought it was.

[ravenAK]

I'm sure there ARE women who feel 'conveyor belt'ed by abortion clinics, but I'm equally sure that there are a heck of a lot more who feel hugely relieved to have a decision they had made independently, efficiently dealt with. They just won't be phoning the radio...because they are satisfied with the outcome.


I would say, though, that anti-abortion pregnancy counselling IS widely available - LIFE etc are well supported & active organisations, who are quite capable of offering their version of 'advice' without the Govt helpfully funnelling us their way.

[Mitmoo]

Mme DIdn't know about Germany and am suprised, I would be against it here but no politician has suggested this, the only people saying it could happen here are the abortion clinics because they know it will get the hackles up big time.

No place for Catholics or other religions in counselling women re pregnancy, it has to be independent. I don't trust the government at all, but they are saying independent, religious groups are not independent by a long shot.