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Death Penalty: Being considered bought back to the UK

87 replies

Cocoflower · 04/08/2011 13:06

www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iTqjnNzRM-TiIEv0rLTXb_zb8ITQ?docId=CNG.8f872789736d127ca37fde3925b5a5bc.51

Seems House of Commons is seriously going to be debating bringing this back.

It is minefield- who should get death penalty?

The over-arching concern for me is what if they get they kill the innocent?

Is this a budget-cut saving scheme- cutting the tax payers bill on keeping inmates?

OP posts:
BadgersPaws · 04/08/2011 14:16

"miniwedge That was the case but it was the first act repealed by Tony Blair's government."

No it wasn't....

The death penalty for treason wasn't abolished until 1998, and even then it was a Peer (a Labour one admittedly) who put the crucial clause in and not a member of Blair's Government.

Detail perhaps but to be quite honest I'm pleased that one of the very first acts of the Labour Government wasn't to go chasing after obscure and by that time pretty irrelevant bits of legislation, they had better things to be doing.

TartyDoris · 04/08/2011 14:32

Put it to a referendum. I'd be happy to see it brought back. I'd like to see tough prisons again, like the ones in Japan.

Whitershadeofpale · 04/08/2011 14:48

Thanks BadgersPaws I stand corrected.

slug · 04/08/2011 15:10

At a time when we are beginning to see how seriously corrupt some of our police forces have become, it seems counterintuitive to start discussing the reintroduction of the death penality.

adamschic · 04/08/2011 15:44

Tarty, very surprised at your views there Hmm.

I would hate to live in a country that legalised murder.

WidowWadman · 04/08/2011 17:55

I think I'd seriously consider leaving the country and going back to Germany if it was reinstated. I wouldn't want to pay taxes to a state which legalised murder.

Empusa · 04/08/2011 18:35

Tarty That's because you talk without bothering to think first.

Question.

Is murder, wrong or right in your opinion?

If wrong, then how can you support legalised murder?

crazynanna · 04/08/2011 18:51

That poor guy,sorry cannot remember his name,Stefan I think.

Was imprisoned in the 70's for the murder of that poor little girl (Leslie?)

Turns out about 20 odd years later that they had the wrong man.

And if he had been hung?......

TartyDoris · 04/08/2011 19:04

I think I'd seriously consider leaving the country and going back to Germany if it was reinstated. I wouldn't want to pay taxes to a state which legalised murder.
You can't legalise murder. Murder is an unlawful killing. The death sentence is no more murder than the police or army shooting someone dead is.

WidowWadman · 04/08/2011 19:38

All of those who think it's justified for child murderers - You'd have sent Sally Clark to the gallows. Still think it's a good idea?

WidowWadman · 04/08/2011 19:42

Tarty Doris - "The death sentence is no more murder than the police or army shooting someone dead is" You mean like Menezes or Tomlinson?

Also, if you want to make the point that killing people is wrong, I think doing it by killing people is kind of stupid.

Riveninside · 04/08/2011 19:43

Friend is in Iran eight now. Public hangings off bridges anyone?
Hopefully we are a teeny bit more civillised than countries with death penalties

EldritchCleavage · 05/08/2011 12:33

Are we all happy to start having to rank certain kinds of murders, some attracting the death penalty, and some not?

Unless people think every single murder should attract the death penalty, then we would need to decide the worst murders. I can see real problems building a consensus there: child murders (small children only, or anyone under 18?)? Murders of police officers? So-called honour killings? Racially motivated murders? Murdering one's spouse? Murder in the course of other crimes such as robbery? Organised crime assassinations?

If you are e.g. 16 when you commit a murder, are you automatically excused the death penalty or, would you be incarcerated until old enough to die (as occurs in some US states)?

reallytired · 05/08/2011 12:45

The reason that much of the public wants the death penalty and MPs are against it is that quite a high percentage of adults are as thick as pigshit. (Just look at the number of adults in this country who are illerate.) Thankfully its quite hard to become an MP that rules out total idiots. There is an element of choice through general elections.

True democracy would be mob rule. Can you imagine the sucessor to the News of the World or the Daily Mail deciding whether someone lives or dies. It would be horrific.

Much better to leave them in jail for a long time. Prehaps we need to look at ways of bringing down the costs of our prison service without reducing safety.

Nancy66 · 05/08/2011 17:13

reallytired - I think you may have proved your point although, possibly, not in the way you intended.

OberonTheHopeful · 06/08/2011 00:44

crazynanna, you might be thinking of Stefan Kiszko who served 17 years (I think) for the murder of Lesley Molseed before having his conviction overturned. I believe someone else has since been convicted of the murder.

BBQFrenzy · 06/08/2011 01:15

Although I disagree with the death penalty on principle (I don't want to live in a society that's moral compass hasn't become more in over 2,000 years beyond an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth), I also object on practical grounds.

The criminal justice system will always be too fallible - it's run by humans. There's been lots of examples over the years, some of which have led to progress and reform, but it will never be perfect.

From vague and distant undergrad memories Kiszko had learning needs and was bullied into confessing - Police and Criminal Evidence Act (governing things like right to have a lawyer, right to be accompanied at police interview for vulnerable adults and children) only came in to force in 1984. Then you have forensic science slip-ups (factory soap of Guildford 4 being the cause behind the glycerine on their hands, as opposed to due to bomb-making) and police under pressure to produce results. And inquiries such as the Steven lawrence Enquiry. I am very afraid we are heading down the route to having elected judges which would push our justice system closer to the States and is not good (in my view) for ensuring a robust checks and balances

I think it also has the effect of making juries less able to convict so would push conviction rates even lower, meaning we have more dangerous people in society who are repeat offenders.

reelingintheyears · 06/08/2011 21:54

crazynanna

I thinh he was Stefan Kisko..

His Mum died not long after he was let out and i think he died aswell.

I bet he had a shit time in prison.

Pan · 06/08/2011 22:10

and the Birmingham 6 and the Guildford 4 anyone? All would have been state-murdered though innocent.

EightiesChick · 06/08/2011 22:12

Fortunately, no such vote has a chance of getting through.

edam · 06/08/2011 22:13

I disgree with the death penalty on grounds of principle and pragmatism. But I am fecked off with the commentators who have been busy writing and saying 'ooh, this will show the government how stupid they were to allow public petitions, you just see, the great unwashed are thick and angry'. Such snobbery. Patronising gits. I'm not quite cross enough to back the death penalty just to spite them but I'd certainly be tempted to lie about it if asked in a vox pop.

reelingintheyears · 06/08/2011 22:18

Totally agree Pan.

Malcontentinthemiddle · 06/08/2011 22:20

oh, good old stupid old TartyDoris!

mycatsaysach · 06/08/2011 22:21

it will never happen.

fargate · 06/08/2011 22:26

The whole gov e-petition thing smacks of 'bread and circuses' to me. Yet another cynical sideshow to distract us folks from more pressing matters like the economy.

In the US it costs $1.8 million dollars from sentencing to execution. And has no proven efficacy in reducing the murder rate. Can't see it happening myself.

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