40,000 families homeless due to benefit cuts - and no money saved...

[pointythings]

story in today's Guardian

I am just .

So what can we do to keep people in their homes, especially given that the majority of these families will be working families? How are low-paid jobs in places like London going to be done without penalising the people earning this low pay by forcing them to move away and incur huge travel costs? Are we ever going to have the house price readjustment that is needed so that people can live where they work, have sensible mortgages they can afford and are able to save a bit too?

Aaaargh, I wish I had some answers, I am feeling really depressed about this...

yes and Ll know that no mater what if one won`t pay or can not pay someone else will be desperate enough to .

I will do ,y best to stay where I am and will find the shortfall if i have to to such time as the council house me which should be sooner than later .

i would like to see the right to buy removed completley .

Quite a few people i know who have used the right to buy have had them repossessed anyway.

ah see i know where people have brought with good discount with the plan down the line to sell and use as stepping stone to bigger and better propertys.

I do not want to buy and will never be able to afford to .I just want some security and adaptions done

Thats what my mam did human, You can only get a certain amount off now but i also still think that should be removed.

People asking where £500 a week can go - we have two children, one gets the 15 free hours a week and we pay for a few more hours, and the baby goes part time too. Most of this is paid for (i think about 75%). so that's £200 in itself. Then the £100 hb, which doesn't cover our rent (or any rent that wod meet our needs, unless we get to the top of the five year waiting list for a housing association property). We are apparently exempt from the cap due to me being disabled, but I get just under £100 a week in dla. Add in the working tax credits that top up dhs wage of £80 a week (£20 of which goes on his bus pass to the nearest job that was going - i think we live near stottie cake, this town is still reeling from the mines being shut. Plus who can find a permanent job these days?)
So, yes, we do get more than £500 a week. And dh works as much as he can, i was only in mental hospital a week ago, and on doctors advice i would still be there, but i needed to be out to watch the kids in the times dh is working and nursery is shut or we can't afford extra hours. We only have two kids, and live in one of the cheapest housing areas (when things were better, we looked at buying a two bedroom house with garden for £60,000, that was just up the road.

So, there you go. Taxpayers money being chucked around. That is how £500 is spent, and I'm sure the details change, but the story is the same up and down the country.

The only way to reduce the benefits bill is to cap rents, build more council houses, raise the minimum wage and create the jobs so people see the point in looking for work. People can't live on less money than it costs to live.

Apie - Ive been for 8 interviews in a month. Not for good jobs, just general bar work/cleaning/receptionist. I am getting fed up with it. Half of our towns main street is shuttered as no one can afford the rents. 3 pubs have been closed.

I would be so much better of working even paying for the Nursery but i cant work where there are no jobs. I have never been this long without being able to pick up some work. The only good thing is that i am me and the kids are secure in my council house

Totally believe you. If something happens to Nissan somehow, then we'll be living in a ghost town. There is nothing else going on.

Oh well, off to Durham on Saturday with the Usworth banner. Will see if anyone there has any bright ideas.

My 2 brothers work at Nissan and my cousin. 2 of them have already been laid of from Komatsu and were lucky they got straight in to Nissan. God help us if they move.

Good luck at Durham

"raise the minimum wage and create the jobs so people see the point in looking for work. People can't live on less money than it costs to live."
Raising the minimum wage would cost people their jobs. A lot of people haven't got skills that are worth £5.93 an hour. The further you raise it, the more people you take out of viability for work.

It isn't the government's responsibility to create jobs. It is the government's responsibility to create conditions where employers will create jobs.

If the minimum wage isn't high enough, people can't afford to live, and so the wages need to be topped up by the government. A full time job should be enough to support at least one adult and child. Just because somebody can only find work as a cleaner or builder doesn't mean thier food costs less.

Yes, it isn't the governments responsibility to create jobs. I'm worried that they are getting rid of too many, with a short sighted policy of trying to save money on wages or on contracts (see the recent train building contract) without considering the costs, both in benefits and in wider problems associated with unemployemnt, not to mention the removal of the services that those people used to provide causing more money to be spent in the long run.

I'm really getting the impression that the poor and disabled are being used a scapegoats - it's very easy and simplistic to point the finger at a woman in a tracksuit, pushing a pram containing a child with an unusual name, who claims a few hundred to cover basic living costs. The finger hardly ever gets pointed at the man in a suit who is legally evading thousands of pounds of tax with the advice of expensive lawyers, and then paying so he doesn't even need to share a doctors waiting room with said tracksuited person. He will protest that it is nothing to do with his privledged background and contacts, and that the other person should have just worked harder and waited till they were eanring over £100,000 before having a baby.

Yeah, it's a massive generalisation, but it is (overall) what seems to be happening. The woman doesn't have the education, contacts or respect to be able to be heard. Nobody is listening to her. There are ways of improving her lot, and making her less dependant on the state, but just taking away the services and benefits she needs to survive and improve her sitaution is not the way.

thefalcon it is us as a society that says what 'worth' is and if we say that no endeavour is 'worth' even £5.93 an hour then we are not a society i want to be part of.

as a society we come together under a banner of certain moral and economic values and paying people enough to eat, clothe and house themselves is surely one of those. Just as we say that in the UK we believe that all children have a right to a free at point of delivery education until age 18 and free health care for life then we say that those who can work should get a basic minimum wage for doing so.

and the cuts in the public and private sectors are not all essential at this time. the government has made a tactical decision to reduce the deficit quickly at the expense of individuals' livelihoods rather than big multinationals. Those who voted lib dem/conservative approved this action, not me.

and if the cuts mean that more people will be out on the streets that is the result of government policy. and if eric pickles is saying it, god help us.

At the end of the day, the government cannot provide for an infinite amount of people indefinately. People need to realise that it is their responsibility to gain skills that enable them to earn a decent living. I said a long time ago that it would come to this, as the underclass kept on increasing in size regardless of the fact that there were no jobs for them to do and never would be. Sooner or later the people who go out to work and are taxed to the hilt are going to say "fuck 'em" and vote in a party that represents working people's interests, not non-working people.

"The woman doesn't have the education, contacts or respect to be able to be heard. Nobody is listening to her. There are ways of improving her lot, and making her less dependant on the state, but just taking away the services and benefits she needs to survive and improve her sitaution is not the way."

What is the way? How do you educate those who wilfully buck any attempt to educate themselves or their children? How do you get people into work who absolutely refuse to work as long as they get their rent paid and weekly benefits? The only way is to threaten them with homelessness. Anything else and they'll just ignore it and carry on as they are.

thefalcon but there will always be low skilled jobs that need doing, eg cleaning that work out ok for loads of reasons for individuals to do but that should pay at least a minimum wage. the country requires some people who are highly skilled, some who are moderately skilled and others who are low skilled. not everyone needs to be highly skilled to work, it would in fact be ridiculous if everyone had, say, a degree in engineering, wouldn't it?

and the government doesn't have the money - we do. the government merely caretakes it for us,, the citizens and decides how much to tax and what to spend it on. nobody is suggesting that we all stop paying taxes are they? all governments in uk do this and we all take it in turns to vote in various versions of government each of whom make slightly different decisions about how to spend it.

the closest we have got to a revolution is the poll tax riots 20 years ago and that did make them change their minds. maybe the public sector strikes will do the same - who knows? always hope I guess

I agree with Falcon. I believe the government is trying to change attitudes towards work and earnings in the long term.

Until recently I had no idea of the huge amounts of benefits that were claimable and I have found it totally shocking. For me it's simple, get the best job you can, live where you can afford and expect no help from anyone.

TheFalcon I see what you are saying, and you are correct in terms of indeed, no government has an infinite amount of funds. It's just as correct that no government is perfect, as at the end of the day we are all human beings, and not only see, but experience life differently.

Sadly however, something needs to be done about the minimum wage and also about the lack of jobs. It's not easy and to be honest I cannot think of a solution to the matter right now. But if students are to come out of college and university with qualifications, but still find it difficult to find a job, there is something wrong here. It does happen.

I also agree with APieOfButter. If an adult is working say, 35-40 hours a week, it should be enough to support both themselves and another person. If we have gotten to the point where those who have gained skills through experience, qualifications or both cannot afford to feed themselves and say, a child, pay the bills and rent, and pay for transport to and from work, then I think that's pretty alarming. A person on the minimum wage working 40 hours a week, would earn approximately 12k BEFORE tax. Am I the only one who thinks that isn't enough? I also think it's pretty depressing. It's easy to see how some people could fall into depression by working very hard and getting so little for their efforts. Someone working 40 hours, in my opinion should not be earning less than 15k a year. I know it's not easily solved, but not everyone is able to go to university sadly.

"Someone working 40 hours, in my opinion should not be earning less than 15k a year."
But what if the work they do is not worth 15k a year?

We can't just keep topping up wages indefinately. Sooner or later we won't be able to afford to do it anymore.

Most housing benefit claimants work. There may be some people sitting back and refusing to work, everyone knows one (or at least thinks they do-I suspect I am that person for some people as my illness is invisable) but the vast majority are trying as hard as they can. Eg, my dh has applied for countless jobs, is well spoken, has qualifications and so on. He has a tempory job working 16 hours in a shop. The shop takes up to an hour to travel to each day, and the bus pass takes a quarter of his wages. He has high hopes of being made permanent, but his work could find they are short of cash and fire him. He was made redundant from his last job when the employer decided they didn't need two admin staff, and he couldn't go back to the warehouse because a third of them were laid off too. There were over 100 applications for his current job.

We have to claim housing benefit. We still have to top it up because it doesn't cover the rent of any house we could find.

Without benefits, how would you feed, clothe, house and care for two adults (one with care needs) and two under fives for £60 a week?

Both those children were conceived while we were both working, btw. Before we had dd1, i had 6 years and dh 14 years of working and taxpaying behind us. All our parents and siblings work, or did till they retired or died. We are not unique. Everyone is three pieces of bad luck from being desperate. Don't fall into the trap of thinking we are all Vikki Pollard.

The Falcon - now stop it. Oh, my sides! All that and you never once mentioned banks. (Barclays paid 1% tax in 2010) Fred Goodwin ring any bells? Phillip Green? No money, the sky is falling, no money....

It's no good saying "the rich must pay more tax" and then doing nothing to actually make it happen.

Either find some way to raise the tax take, or else pay out less in benefits and other public spending. It's no good throwing money at people and then blaming the rich for the fact that there's no money left in the coffers.

if i was prime minister/chancellor, I would tax people who earned more than £100k at 50% and those who earned bonuses or greater salaries than £150k at an additional 25%. I would also tax inheritances at a much higher rate and I would tax sales of property, windfall taxes, sodding rich companies like banks, microsoft and the like at 75% - I just think that if people/organisations earn that much (and 'earn'? how much more work do they actually do than say, a hospital nurse?) then they should be happy to contribute more. Remember the parable of the widow's mite...

How would you go about ensuring this tax was paid? How would you stop people moving abroad because they don't agree with the increased taxes?

It's all very well talking about raising taxes, but it doesn't always mean an increase in the tax take.

You cant even get a minimum wage job where i am. I worked at GNER for 10 years and 5 years at Telewest with a few admin jobs in between. I dont have degrees or A levels. I took the route of gaining an apprenticeship whilst working towards numerous NVQ's.

Doesnt help me now. Since i split from the kids dad i have done various jobs:

Shop work
Server in a fish shop
Cleaner
Barmaid

I cant get a job no matter how many i apply for. I apply for any jobs advertised. In the last 6 months i have applied for

Receptionist at the travel lodge
Nightshift in a garage
Asda/Tesco
Dinner lady
3 barmaid jobs
Waitress
4 Admin assistant jobs.

I havent even got one interview. I have done my food hygeine certificate through the jobcentre.

The kids dad has been in 3 temporary spray painting jobs with 3 month contracts in the past 18 months. In between he has claiimed JSA and done various courses through the jobcentre.

Can somone tell me how i get off benefits other than living on fresh air.

TheFalcon I think if the government can figure out a way to reduce the amount of tax evasion then that would massively help this country. However, I can't see it happening, as I can see those who evade as much tax as they can using whatever powers they possess to do so. And in terms of big corporations, the powers they possess are great. That, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the government (or those they closely work with) contained people who engage in said tax evasion.

Sadly I don't think we can blame everything on tax evasion, first of all that isn't all there is to it, and the rich and powerful controlling the strings I'm sure has been going on for a very long time, and not just in this country either. We need to look more into say, how much money we can really afford to help other countries with, reconsidering the wars we get involved with and for how long (As I think it would bleed this country dry to be in every single war that went on nowadays), and not giving so much money to immigrants.

I'm not against immigrants by any means, I love my friends that I have across the world and I think it's important to have some diversity! However, we act like a free state, you can come here and take what you want. Realistically, that just isn't a good thing. I also think the amount we give those in prison is too much, I think giving them consoles, televisions, snooker tables etc isn't really teaching them the right lesson. Reducing the 'luxuries' our prisoners have would save money and make prison more... prison-like I suppose.

Those are just my two cents though, I'm not saying I'm right but there are just some things that are long overdue to be worked on.

To those who live a longtime lifestyle of refusing to work and claiming benefits, prison is not a deterrent at all.