Teachers to strike - 30 June

[meditrina]

breaking now on SKY

Overwhelming vote by 2 teachers' unions (92%)

Actually, as an ex-classroom-teacher and a parent, I think it's important that teachers DO stand up for the few remaining benefits of the profession.

Teaching is a tough job. It has an impact on the future of every child in the country and it needs to be done well.

Holidays and pensions are the two perks in teaching. If we want to employ the best teachers then there has to be SOMETHING to attract them away from other sectors because let's be honest - you've got to be a very special kind of person to want to teach in modern comprehensives through some sense of vocation. These people do exist, but we can't rely on this if we want to recruit the best people to teach our kids.

Only a few people on here have drawn attention to the fact that the Teachers Pension Scheme is entirely self funding and COSTS THE TAXPAYER NOTHING. That may not be true of all pensions, but it is the case with teachers.

The pension scheme was independently audited in 2010 and this found that it was fully self-funding until 2068 (which was the end date for the audit, so no reason to expect it will be less self funding after that)

It is truly a shame that the majority of pension schemes have collapsed and ceased to be affordable. But this is NOT THE CASE FOR TEACHERS PENSIONS. The pensions of retired teachers are being fully paid by the contributions of current teachers. This is made possible by economies of scale, the fact that it is a stable and predictable profession.

There is no reason for the government to change teachers' pension rates. It is not the government's money or the taxpayers' money; it's the teachers' money.

That's really interesting.... I've paid into it for years and I didn't realise that.

And also, to clarify about final pension schemes. Teachers don't retire on their final salary, it's just that the calculations are based on final salary rather than career average

I'm all for the teachers protecting what they had been led to expect. Only a few years ago there was reform of the teachers pensions and now they are being told they need to reform again. I work in an industry that isn't unionised and our pensions have been changed dramatically. I say stand up now whilst you can and don't just roll over and take it. They work sooooo... hard.

Well noisy, you might also be interested that in the boom years of the last decade, teachers pensions were actually making a profit (current teachers' payments were more than was needed to pay for retired teachers). And guess what happened? The government creamed the excess off the top and whacked it into the government budget.

Now they want to take even more money. I think this is something all teachers should feel really strongly about

imgonnaliveforever - It is a sad fact that so many teachers die before or not long after retirement and that is one of the reasons why the teachers pensions are affordable.

imgonnaliveforever
do you have a link to a government website that shows that no taxpayer money goes to provide Teachers Pensions?
Because what you say is flatly contradicted by this
www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/indreview_johnhutton_pensions.htm

The LGPS & NHS schemes are 3/4 funded by employers contributions - ie taxpayers money.
The MOD scheme is "unfunded" ie the money comes out of taxrevenue each year and members pay no contributions - so the rest of us pay all of it
The Teachers scheme is unfunded so 3/4 of the pensions are paid by the taxpayer
and we are running out of money

Isitreally - interestingly employer contributions are one of the only things that the government hasn't tried to change. They want to increase employee contributions.

I take your point that the money paid in employer contributions comes from school budgets, but would you rather that the employer contributed nothing to pensions, just because it's state money.

Also the pension scheme may be underwritten by the government, but it is very much in the black, and likely to be so for the foreseeable future. And it's not based on investments - current teachers pay retired teachers.

Ah no - isitreally is right. 14% from employer.

crossed posts

If the government plans were simply to reduce employer contribution that that would make more sense, and I think teachers would be less angry, maybe even prepared to accept a rise in employee contributions to counter it.

But employer contribution is the one thing not mentioned, basically because the government simply wants to make the pension pot bigger so that they can cream off it.

My BIL is a university academic. He gets 18% contributions paid by the taxpayer/employer and is looking to retire on about 30 k per year. As is his wife.

Imgonna, with this type of scheme it is just not possible to reduce the employer contribution without changing the benefit structure and that is why it has not been mentioned. Only in money purchase schemes would this be mentioned.

imgonnaliveforever

there IS NO PENSION POT for Teachers and the MOD.
It is an unfunded scheme.
Teachers pay a part of their salary as a form of tax.
The government later pays them a defined benefit pension
there is no set percentage, its just the amount that is needed.

In the LGPS schemes between 1997 and 2010, employER contributions rose from 8% to 19.6% while employEE contributions rose from 5% to 5.5%
ie the taxpayer coughs up three times as much and the employee reaps the rewards

What's the LGPS scheme?

Local Government Pension Scheme - that covers everybody employed by County, Borough, Parish and other Councils, many former nationalised industries such as old Water Board employees, employees of "admitted bodies" including lots of support staff at private schools and government related charities and companies.
There is one for each county. Added up they are the largest investors in the UK stock market.
Their deficits can be quantified because they have a defined fund.

The Teachers and MOD cannot because there is no fund - the pensions are paid out of each year's tax revenue.

But in terms of money in compared with money out per annum, the teachers pension is self sustaining. That is, what is received from pension contributions fully covers what is paid out in pension payments. This is expected to be the case until at least 2068, according to last years audit. So it's a bit misleading to say that it's paid out of tax revenue, as it is specifically paid out of current pension contribution, via the tax system

Actually, teachers are suffering on many counts. Their jobs are not safe. I know of teachers who have been made redundant and classes merged, teachers who have been encouraged to retire because they are too expensive with the current cuts, specialist teachers and advisors, educational psychologists, speech and language therapists etc, who have been layed off. As well as mass redundancies, salaries have been capped to 2 years (which is effectively a pay cut), pension contributions will go up and they will have to work longer. You must remember that teachers are not to blame for the financial crisis.

I think people can get into a very negative mode and instead of supporting these trained professionals (who are responsible for the education of our children) they try to tear them down.

Please provide the link to that audit

because your assertion is contradicted by this
www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/HC-257.pdf
which on page 14 states that the liability of the taxpayer to the scheme is a minimum of £223.9 BILLION pounds

Pang
The teachers are not to blame for the financial crisis.
But the pensions issue is actually nothing to do with the 2008 meltdown.

Return rates on pension schemes never recovered after 2001 and this issue has needed to be dealt with since then.
Private pensions have done so - closed DB schemes, cut benefits etc etc
But the last government chickened out on something that its first report saying to do what is now being done was issued in 2004.

Nobody is trying to "tear down" any profession but as I have said in this thread and elsewhere ; if the teachers of today keep the pensions we cannot afford, their pupils will get no pension AT ALL.
I hope that all those who voted to strike are happy to tell their pupils that.
And the same goes for every other publicly funded job and pension.

TalkinPeace,
I just feel that teachers do such a difficult and valuable job that they should be compensated for it. If we value our children's education we should also value our children's teachers. Without an education our children will not get good jobs and therefore may "get no pension AT ALL." Why penialise people who work hard for the good of the society.

I am not saying that all teacher's are wonderful but my goodness there are some that deserve their current pension and more.