Teachers to strike - 30 June

[meditrina]

breaking now on SKY

Overwhelming vote by 2 teachers' unions (92%)

I don't necessarily agree with their argument .... I myself have never worked in the public sector but have been on a 10% pay reduction since 2008, had my employers pension contributions frozen since then and am still working forced reduced hours.

I do however believe we need to stand up to this farce of a government and if this puts the pressure on them thats fine with me!

if this puts the pressure on them thats fine with me!

What do you want the pressure to achieve?
They were the least worst option at the last election
The deficit HAS to be reduced if we do not want our children to face an economic outlook FAR worse than that in Greece, Spain or Ireland.

Every civilised society should aim to make their childrens' lives better than their own.
The Unions are doing the opposite - headed by officials whose one pensions are protected!

The affordability of the extra contributions is an issue.

The pension is (under)funded from current contributions - is that right?

If they increase the level of contribution such that people pull out of the scheme, isn't that going to make a bad situation worse? Or am I missing something?

Yet my union tells me that our pensions are sustainable.

Really? Do you have any information that can be shared on that? From everything I've read it's clear there is a huge pensions gap which is growing every year. Left unchanged, our kids simply have no chance to fund the pensions promised today. The graph i posted earlier i think illustrates the problem nicely but I would genuinely like to hear the union's rebuttal.

There is no major party which disagrees that public sector pensions need reform. It's also interesting to note that even Labour are not opposing reform, they just object to this government's approach (which you'd expect and you'd expect Tories to be saying the same thing if Labour were the govt of the day).

The only people who seem to think pensions in their current form are sustainable are the unions and I've not read a single article which explains why they feel that. Like I said, I am truly interested in reading why.

I cannot afford the extra contributions, simple. We have cut back all that we can. We have one child, we don't have a mortgage. I eat a big meal at school so we cut down on food bills at home. We live within a few miles of work and car share. We don't claim child benefit or any kind of tax credit although I do not think I would be eligible anyway.

against. They have a moral responsibility not to strike.

I have to say that I have very mixed feelings about this. Having been through a strike at university level where I found myself co-ordinating a branch response in which nobody wished to strike but all felt that we had to to avoid freeloading on our colleagues and to preserve national bargaining, I can't help thinking all this is better conducted behind closed doors without the polarising effect of strike action.

But I really don't know what people want of teachers' unions. The sense seems to be that teachers should just shut up and take anything and do 'their jobs', unless it's putting in the extra hours to help your kids, write reports, reform school and LA practice, help develop better curricula or fight for education. Yet if they use their members expertise to talk generally about detrimental conditions and changes in the sector they are accused of playing politics, and if they focus on a simple issue of 'pay' they are accused of being selfish.

I wonder if it was a government spin doctor that started this idea that all public sector employees not paying their contributions would harm the government?

All that will happen is that the government will cheer at the massive reduction in future liabilities and raise taxes to cover the shortfall and blam public sector employees. Will be playing right into their hands!!!

The words cut, nose spite and face come to mind.

VictorGollancz - totally agree with your posts.

Niceguy:
"2) Welcome to the same boat the rest of us were in a few years ago. I didn't hear teacher's at the time protesting on our behalf so sorry if our sympathy is lacking somewhat."

So because the private sector didn't stand up for themselves, the public sector shouldn't? Is the new plan that we just give up and have everything taken away. Where will it end if noone stands up? I think its shit that the private AND public sectors have had such a bad time, but moaning and blaming others doesn't get you anywhere. Stand up and be heard.

2 members of my close family have been made redundant in the past year - one in the private sector who now has a new job, and a teacher who is struggling to get a few hours here and there.

DH and I both work in the public sector ( we both previously worked in the private sector). DH has been at risk of redundancy this year, but has just squeezed through ready for round 2 of redundancies. In my work, my dept is next in line for review, so I could well be made redundant in the next 6 months.

I'm sorry if I don't just sit back and take it. The tories are using the current financial issues to PURSUE THEIR OWN AGENDA. They are using divide and rule tactics, playing sectors/communities against each other. With us all busy arguing with each other about who has it worse, and who needs to take the next hit, the government are running riot cutting left, right and centre.

We have the problem that pensions were invented when people died young and market returns were higher (due to slower reaction times by the hangers on- pre internet)
Brown and Balls were economic Morons. "We have abolished Boom and Bust".
I've met people who were slack jawed at the Mansion House Speech.

If PFI was ever put into the UK Government accounts we are deeply burgered.

So, those of us who have houses and ISAs have a moral responsibilty to take the hit to save our children from penury.
Every person you know who retired under the age of 65 on a full pension is part of the problem.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Every mumsnetter MUST realise that until we as a country stop living on "tick" we are all to blame.
The teachers are the public face of tracker mortgages at 1% reducing returns on pension fund investments....

TalkinPeace you sure? 'Talkinshit' more like

I'm a teacher and my Union isn't striking so I'm not. I'm generally not into the whole striking thing and I'd have a minor problem if my union had voted to strike as that's the first day of two of Music Exams in my school and I am the head of music so have to steward them!! However, this is the first time that I have felt so strongly about something that I might have gone on strike. My husband was made redundant last week for the second time in 18 months and, quite frankly, we can't afford to lose that extra money out of my pay packet.

They are welcome to cut my pension payments, but I can't afford to put any more in. Simple.

wook
very, very sure - provide the links to prove me wrong before I bore the whole thread to tears with accountancy / finance links that are the basis of my argument

Chillistars, "They have a moral responsibility not to strike."

Who? Teachers? How do you figure that exactly? The world will not end if I am not there to teach my classes for one day. I would concede your point if you were talking about the police but I personally think that the government have a moral responsibility to safeguard the futures of their employees, especially the lowest paid ones (not just teachers, also TAs and other public sector workers).

The govt announcing their intentions before the end of the talks yesterday is a basic inflammatory measure, designed to get the union's back's up and force us into strike action that will skew public opinion against us but they aren't really leaving us with any choice.

Has anyone asked whether MPs are going to raise their retirement age and pension contributions? They are amongst the best paid of public sector workers, and that's before you even take into account all their perks...

feralgirl
the MP's are indeed outrageous in their pension demands
but there are only 646 at a time so the total liability is less than a weeks worth of the Teachers or MOD schemes

the strikers of all hues have to realise that this issue is FAR LARGER than any of them.
If we do not bring the deficit and public sector commitments (including Pensions and PFI) under control, we are putting our own children into debt for the rest of their lives to make ourselves more comfortable.
My kids are not happy with such an idea.
Have you discussed it with yours?

So if missing a day at school is so not important why all this fuss about taking a family holiday in term time!!! I have to be honest it grates for me. My husbands pension has been hit he is in the Army so he just has to lump it, he isn't able to strike in protest. Look at the holidays you get as well!!!

That's been discussed before - because it's an Ofsted agenda which we are obliged to enforce.

Your dh doesn't have to pay anything into his pension, though.

Ah, back to the holidays...

Very good point but his pay isn't that great and he does get sent to the most hideous of places and we have a shit family life because I value a stable life and remain in our own home to enable the children to have a stable education so when things like this happen it does grate.

Well you do get bloody good holidays. I understand that you work long hours, hours that many parents perhaps don't appreciate but that 6 weeks half of which gets spent in France.........

Well there you go which area will you spending your holidays Vendee perhaps? I hear that area is awfully popular with the teachers!!

So, hang on - because your dh doesn't get paid that well, and is sent to hideous places, I have to pay more, get less, retire later, and suck it up?

My family life is every bit as important as yours - why the competition? - and we cannot afford extra payments of £200 a month.

We don't get paid for our holidays though. Imagine how much we'd get paid if we did! Not that this has anything to do with pensions.
Back to the issue:
If I had been eligible to vote I would have said no - I think we've got bigger problems than pensions. But people clearly feel very strongly about it so good luck to them.