Teachers to strike - 30 June

[meditrina]

breaking now on SKY

Overwhelming vote by 2 teachers' unions (92%)

Crikey, I dipped my toe in and boy it got hot! Society is screwed, the injustice in pay scales, pensions, bonuses etc,etc is off the scale and yet we all sit back and accept it; stiff upper lip and carry on even though our debts mount, we struggle to pay the bills, put fuel in the car and food in the fridge- I take my hat off to anyone who has got the gumption to say no this is not right. Make it uncomfortable, chaotic and unworkable just like our lives are being made so...go teachers, go nurses, go social workers....you don't see the bankers, MPs,or the insurers being reduced to striking.

I'm all for the teachers striking. I think the tories are suddenly gunning for public sector workers making out that they have a cushy number - excess pension, too many sickies etc. The decent pension has been one thing that compensated public sector workers for relatively low pay / no bonuses etc and now thats being targeted. I'm all for people taking a stand against this and if that means striking then thats what they have to do and others should support them.

Begore i toddle off, would ask anyone to reply to the SEN green paper consultation. A lot of it will make teachers lives harder and reduce funding for sen provision in schools while expecting teachers to carry on with sen statement type plans but without the statements and funding for one to onesnthat comes with them.
Theres an executive summary online - i forget where sorry - so you dont have to plough through all 137 tedious pages full of waffle.

Exactly and that's why we need to stand against it. I realise that unfortunately the system can't cope, but surely it's about making a point...

riveninside, yes there has been talk of this at school. I will look and see, however I shall not expect a reply from another conservative MP if I send a letter. I have sent three letters to three different conservative mp's this year in response to different papers and guess how many replies I have had? Yep, a great big zero.

That's right. And just because the protests failed to stop the government changing the NHS doesn't mean that we should stop protesting. If we don't complain, the government will think we support the changes.

As I see it, we have a choice. We oppose the government all the way and support other people's protests too, or we accept what they're doing. If we oppose them we won't stop them, but we can prevent them from being re-elected. We won't be able to undo all the harm they've done, but we would be able to minimise it. (We would have to have some idea of what we would do instead, of course). If we don't protest, they will systematically dismantle our services and the end result will be much worse for most of us.

The one thing that has lose-lose written all over it is us fighting among ourselves about who is going to be worse off.

You can comment directly on a govt site. Deadline is 30 june ironically enough

Isitreally- I'm totally aware of that and I sympathise; we're currently trying to get back on our feet after my DP's redundancy...

Frances Maude demonised teachers this morning on BBC breakfast. He will have a big fat pension and he sets his own pay rise along with all the other MPs. Yes it will be an inconvenience if parents have to look after their own children, God forbid, as their free babysitting service isnt available..Sorry I mean if schools are closed. Job centre staff are not slagged off to the extent as teachers because people cannot access job centres or if binmen/women dont collect their rubbish. Why?

Wow, what a lot of vile bitterness and jealousy. I'm not a teacher but I do support their right to strike and yes on the turnout figures that resulted in these two ballot outcomes (if it's good enough to lumber an entire country with a government then it's certainly good enough for strike action). I have worked in both the public and private sector in my 35 year career and I know which has the better salaries and 'perks'. That would be the private sector hands down. As for the poster who suggests that public sector workers are getting some kind of freeby from the rest of taxpayers - rubbish! They are delivering the services you rely upon through the local authority that you live in. Giving something back to their community and not just chasing profit. The majority of public sector workers earn under £21,000. Public sector workers such as those in local government have not had a pay increase for two years. The stats prove that this is not the case in the private sector where average increases are running at around 3%. The main pension scheme (which covers local authority workers) is self-funding and not in deficit. I would respect this government far more if it came clean and said the attacks on the public sector and unions are ideologically driven. At least then I couldn't accuse them of treating the British public as idiots. So, let's stop with this mantra of driving everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

Grockle - you're saying you can't afford the pension payments but you also want to quite teaching in favour of being a TA?!?!?

I'm a single parent teacher too - yes, the extra will make things very tight but it's not like there aren't plenty of people in other professions in the same boat. It's bad but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

Why just because other are in a difficult position does it make it not ok for teachers to stand up for the things that they signed up for when coming into profession.

I would expect any other professional body to do the same int he same circumstances. The strike has been deliberately called at a time which will have minimal impact on kids

Picking up on a point a few posts back (ATL rep on TV) and here's a link to a good briefing note on TPS:

a) by 2006, if not earlier, the TPs contribution was made up of a standard part, plus a supplemental part which is variable, subject to actuarial investigation. So the option for higher contributions is part of the scheme already.
b) the scheme is unfunded, so calculations on "deficit" are notional. In 2096, the "deficit" was about £3,000 million - and the assumptions on both inflation and return on investments look wildly over-optimistic now. (Geekily, I would welcome any other published assessments of this - I suspect that 2007 figures, which I cannot locate, are anomalous).
c) the RPI to CPI change is affecting all pensions - even thinks like war disability pensions. There's no heart to this, but teachers are not being singled out. Also given the current inflation rate and the effect it has on the "deficit", I think it is, sadly, necessary.
d) again, teachers are not unique in having their pension age changed - the state retirement pension has changed for all - so many people will be facing the same issue of the need to work longer in whatever job.

The changes do not appear retrospective.

I've seen on here something about a change to career average rather than final salary on this scheme. Does anyone have a link to the detail of this?

I support their action. Yes it's a PITA as a parent but I think they do an amazing job and that they have (like the rest of us) the right to stand up for what they believe in.

The teachers in my DCs school work incredibily hard and after volunteering in the school for a year a couple of years ago, I can honestly say that there is nothing that would make me want to do their job. It's not unusual to pass the school at half 6 and still see many of their cars outside the school so I don't understand the idea that they waltz in at nine and run out the door at half three.

Those who are turning this issue into a class war are falling into the governemnets hands hook line and sinker...

This is not about the public sector as represented by salt of the earth teachers hard at work in inner city sink schools versus the private sector as represented by millionaire bankers...

The reality is that most of the later don't give a shit what teachers do or don't do. Their kids are in private schools most of which will remain open. And if not they have nannies or often have a SAHP or could easily work a day at home.

The real private sector is in fact the millions of ordinary workers...van drivers, waitresses, shop floor workers. And yes, teachers may deride their need to have their children in schools but they can't afford wrap around child care can they? They use a bit of this and a bit of that...kids in school picked up by a grandma etc Many of these people simply cannot work at home and will lose a day's pay if they don't work. Many are already on short weeks or reduced pay and have been for a few years now.

These are the people who your stand will hurt...not the fat cats, not the government...and they will turn against you.

I'd be more sympathetic to the public sector if the unions have a credible alternative plan.

It's as clear as day that we cannot afford the trillion pound pension liabilities. So what would they like to do? Would they prefer to see a tax on rich to pay? Or increase VAT by 5%? What?

Otherwise it just sounds like a toddler tantrum "I want my pension NOW! I don't CARE you say you can't afford it...." and every good parent knows you can't give into a toddler tantrum.

Another perspective from a different angle. I teach in a top university, in a subject which one would assume would attract people who would go into teaching after university. We would LOVE our best students to go into teaching because as academics and parents we see how important good teachers are. But guess what, they don't and it's very, very clear why: money. When most of their peers go into law, PR, banking etc... on good salaries, they have to be very, very dedicated to go into teaching. The money is not good for our top university graduates, not good enough for most of them to live in London, in any case. Now, take away good pensions and add to that paying off a university debt (£9000 a year in fees alone from next year) and then tell me why anyone would go into teaching. We are quickly getting to the point where really good people will not be able to afford to go into teaching. Good will is important, but it does not pay the bills.

While I completely agree that all we public sector people have to take our fair share of the cuts, including to our pensions, why can't we all agree that teachers are different and should be exceptionally well paid and looked after? They teach our children, they shape the next generations. We should be attracting the very best graduates into the profession and we simply don't. I've seen only three or four go into teaching after university in the last ten years.

p.s. yes, I would be more than happy to pay extra tax to fund really good salary packages for teachers because this extra investment would pay for itself very quickly in terms of rising educational standards.

"Yes it will be an inconvenience if parents have to look after their own children, God forbid, as their free babysitting service isnt available..Sorry I mean if schools are closed. Job centre staff are not slagged off to the extent as teachers because people cannot access job centres or if binmen/women dont collect their rubbish. Why?"

I wish teachers wouldnt slag of parents with statements like these. For most parents its education plus the ability to go to work. Teachers strike and we all lose a days pay we cannot afford. Whether you support teachers or not, thats just a fact. The loss of a days pay. Dh's job is on the line, as for many many others. We lose a days pay or find £100 for a carer for the day.
You can support fellow public sector workers but dislike a strike because of the impact on your own job. Dh is private sector. Pay freeze for years and no pension at all. Its shit. Id hate for it to happen to all workers.

Airport workers to join teachers on June 30 strike
Nice one

Even though I read on here facts that teachers work long hours and some probably do - some dont and that is totally true.

My SIL teaches 7 year olds. She gets in 8.30 and is out on her horse at 4pm. Her weekends are generally free apart from a couple of hours of marking or preparation. Her holiday time is exactly that and will prob put in a few days for summer hols. Again with half terms she'll do a few hours - she loves it and wouldnt change it for the world. She loves the holidays and always comments that she doesnt spend all her holiday time working. She has no problems with her work and has no intention to stike.

2 of my close friends also teach infants/juniors and also has generous quality family time at weekends and holidays. Most only travel less than 8 miles to work too.

I would imagine comprehensive is completely different. Much more prep and marking but surely this renumerated?

Yes, school is free safe childcare - its a fact - its what makes the wheels of industry turn and too many people are ignorant to the ways of commerce. The alternative would be private schooling or mums not working. Trade/taxes pay for maternity pay so mums can return to work to earn a living and pay taxes to pay for public services. I dont understand why some people cant grasp that!

Stiking causes financial problems for my family - I cant work or I pay £15 for school club. Businesses have problems with staff having to take sudden days off, or phoning in sick, parents having to take an unpaid day to which most cant afford - so it does have a knock on effect.