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OP posts:
johnhemming · 19/06/2011 19:08

The phrase used in UK law is "significant harm" or "risk of significant harm". I prefer the European Convention terminology of Article 8.

However, whichever terminology you use I would not fail a mother's parenting assessment for feeding a baby on demand rather than by a routine.

The difficulty is that without access to the full set of court proceedings it is not possible to argue what number of cases are rubbish.

It is, however, possible to compare the outcomes for infants in England against Scotland.

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JimmyS · 19/06/2011 19:16

"The difficulty is that without access to the full set of court proceedings it is not possible to argue what number of cases are rubbish."

Indeed, although it doesn't seem to have stopped you up to now.

Do you think you should have access to this information?

Can you think of any reason why the Courts might not think that was a good idea?

johnhemming · 19/06/2011 19:18

I have lawful access to large numbers of cases. Sufficient to know that the system is systemically wrong. Most cases depend upon the decisions of expert witnesses. Some expert witnesses deliberately fail the parents sent to them because that is what the local authority want them to do.

What I have concentrated on statistically is the difference between England and other jurisdictions.

OP posts:
JimmyS · 19/06/2011 19:19

"I am saying there are substantial numbers of cases where children are taken from homes for an inadequate reason which happens in a secret court."

So you don't have access to the case information but you are second guessing decisions on which by your own admission you don't have the full facts.

Are you beginning to spot the flaw in this argument?

johnhemming · 19/06/2011 19:22

Are you beginning to spot the flaw in this argument?

I have spotted the fact that you don't read my posts.

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JimmyS · 19/06/2011 19:23

"Most cases depend upon the decisions of expert witnesses."

And your qualifications to assess expert witnesses is...?

"Some expert witnesses deliberately fail the parents sent to them because that is what the local authority want them to do."

A conspiracy then. Motivated by what?

johnhemming · 19/06/2011 19:31

A conspiracy then. Motivated by what?

Money - not really a conspiracy.

The LA controls which expert is appointed. If the expert gives the wrong answer they get fewer referrals.

"Most cases depend upon the decisions of expert witnesses."

And your qualifications to assess expert witnesses is...?

I take the view that feeding a baby on demand is insufficient cause to fail a parenting assessment. I don't think I need a qualification beyond common sense for this.

My academic qualifications include a scholarship in Natural Sciences to Magdalen College, Oxford and an Honours degree in Physics specialising in Atomic, Nuclear and Theoretical Physics. However, I don't think this prevents me from having an opinion on issues other than Physics.

OP posts:
JimmyS · 19/06/2011 19:43

"I don't think this prevents me from having an opinion on issues other than Physics."

It's s free country. I've not studied physics since school but I can express an opinion on physics if the mood takes me. The question is how much weight would you attach to it.

"I don't think I need a qualification beyond common sense for this. "

I'll resist the obvious comeback. The fact that you consider yourself in a position to second guess those who have made this area their career is surprising. If acquiring expertise adds nothing to (let's call it) "common sense" why did you go to college at all?

"The LA controls which expert is appointed. If the expert gives the wrong answer they get fewer referrals."

And why does the LA want the wrong answer?

johnhemming · 19/06/2011 19:47

And why does the LA want the wrong answer?

Generally the LA officers are tested upon whether they win or lose the case. They like to win. When there were payments for increased numbers of adoptions this shifted the way in which the system worked. The system continues to work in the way it was moved to work.

I am now not going to respond for some time.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 19/06/2011 19:48

So you have no qualifications, just an imagination that sees skullduggery on a massive scale.

JimmyS · 19/06/2011 19:51

I'll assume you inadvertently misunderstood the question.

Why is the LA contending for the "wrong" outcome?

You conspiracy theory about adoption payments is undermined by your own spreadsheet which shows a steady decline over the last decade in numbers of adoptions relative to numbers taken into care.

johnhemming · 19/06/2011 23:41

You conspiracy theory about adoption payments is undermined by your own
spreadsheet which shows a steady decline over the last decade in numbers of adoptions relative to numbers taken into care.

The target was changed from 1st April 2006 to include residency orders and SGOs.

Why is the LA contending for the "wrong" outcome?
Initially the targets and then the tendency for human systems to continue to operate in the same way in the absence of external stimuli.

So you have no qualifications, just an imagination that sees skullduggery on a massive scale.
In terms of academic qualifications I have an MA in Physics, a scholarship in Natural Science, 2 S levels, 4 A levels and I think 10 O levels although it was some time ago.

I also have detailed evidence of corrupt practices in the courts.

Still, if you see this as "no evidence" then that is up to you.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 19/06/2011 23:48

So you are not going to the police with your detailed evidence or the crimes you allege are happening left, right and centre?

mathanxiety · 19/06/2011 23:49

..of..

johnhemming · 20/06/2011 00:08

I have submitted a number of cases to ECtHR.

OP posts:
JimmyS · 20/06/2011 01:47

"I also have detailed evidence of corrupt practices in the courts."

Can you give an idea of the response you have received to this "detailed evidence" so far from

a) the CPS?
b) the Justice Department?
c) your party leader, the Deputy PM?

JimmyS · 20/06/2011 01:49

"I have submitted a number of cases to ECtHR."

Can you supply case reference numbers for these?

What are the domestic case numbers?

What is your locus standi to submit these cases?

johnhemming · 20/06/2011 07:45

I think you fail to understand the constraints of our constitution. Ministers cannot deal with judicial corruption. It requires parliament to act, however, parliament has tended not to do this for some time.

Hence I am working to get parliament to investigate problems in secret courts and particularly secret prisoners.

If you look at the minutes of the bank bench business committee you will see this.

OP posts:
JimmyS · 20/06/2011 13:01

"I think you fail to understand the constraints of our constitution."

I think, with respect, a know a little more about it than you do, despite your belief that your "common sense" trumps professional training. A corrupt judge is not immune from the criminal law. You've also ignored a number of the questions I asked you.

At the risk of drifting into tinfoil hat territory, please tell us which judges you are accusing of corruption and have you passed your "detailed evidence" to the OJC?

JimmyS · 20/06/2011 13:02

PS what is a "secret prisoner"? The Count of Monte Cristo?

johnhemming · 20/06/2011 15:25

I think, with respect, a know a little more about it than you do, despite your belief that your "common sense" trumps professional training.

I really don't think you do. However, there are statements that are so clearly and transparently absurd that they should be discounted notwithstanding the qualifications of the person who is making them.

This is a philosophical difference between the scientific approach to reality and that of the legal approach to reality. In the former case reality is a concrete entity that exists independently of anyone's opinion. In the latter case reality is based upon opinions with some people's opinions being more significant than others.

I follow the scientific approach.

Yes I have given evidence to the OJC, but they have said it is not within their jurisdiction.

I see no merit in giving a list of European Cases I have assisted with. This, however, is one:
www.bailii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/2008/1124.html

The above is one of a number where people's mental capacity has been wrongly removed from them - which is quite common.

On the issue of secret prisoners see my speech to the Back Bench Business Committee for example.

OP posts:
JimmyS · 20/06/2011 15:46

"Yes I have given evidence to the OJC, but they have said it is not within their jurisdiction."

Misconduct by a judge is well within their jurisdiction. What is not within their jurisdiction is attempts by disgruntled litigants to relitigate. That's why your "evidence" was rejected wasn't it?

Again, who are these judges that you accuse of corruption?

I didn't ask you about cases you "assisted with" whatever that means, I asked about the cases you claimed to have actually submitted.

I'll happily look at your speech if you provide a reference or link, although as a general proposition if you are looking to corroborate your allegations you probably ought to find some source more authoritative than your own speech.

johnhemming · 20/06/2011 15:53

That's why your "evidence" was rejected wasn't it?
No

I asked about the cases you claimed to have actually submitted.
To be precise, then, I have posted to the European Court cases that I have assisted in drafting that were signed by applicants other than myself.

I am, however, not a party to those cases.

There is some material here about secret prisoners
www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm110317/halltext/110317h0001.htm

OP posts:
JimmyS · 20/06/2011 15:59

Your link to the RP case does not contain a decision but I was able to find the decision of the Court of Appeal (www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/462.html). It makes for fascinating reading. A brief excerpt from the judgment of Wall LJ may suffice:

"I find it not only unacceptable but shocking, that a man in Mr Hemming's position should feel able to make so serious an allegation without any evidence to support it. In my judgment, it is irresponsible and an abuse of his position. Unfortunately, as other aspects of this judgment will make clear, it is not the only part of the case in which Mr Hemming has been willing to scatter unfounded allegations of professional impropriety and malpractice without any evidence to support them...

Furthermore, I simply do not understand the allegation of bias. How did HJ demonstrate bias? She was asked her professional opinion in an open and clear way, and she gave it. I regret to say that I suspect that the allegation of bias is made because RP (or those advising her) do not like the conclusion which HJ reached. Once again, however, I have to ask myself the very simple question: why should HJ not do her job properly and conscientiously? As with SC, what was in it for her? If her professional opinion had been that RP had capacity, she would have said so. Her professional opinion was that RP did not. That was an opinion she was plainly entitled to reach on the material before her and the proper application of her expertise to it.

Even more unarguable ? indeed it is outrageous - is Mr Hemming's allegation that HJ was the paid expert of the local authority. She was nothing of the kind. Such an allegation is not only without any evidential foundation of any kind: it is plainly contradicted by the evidence.

Mr. Hemming's allegation that HJ is part of an "evil" system only warrants comment because it comes from a Member of Parliament, and thus from a person in a responsible public position whom one ought to be able to trust only to make serious accusations when they are based on evidence. I am astonished that somebody in Mr. Hemming's position should have seen fit to put such a disgraceful allegation into the public domain. I reject it unreservedly.

In my judgment, the evidence plainly contradicts the proposition that RP throughout understood what the case was about. That was not HJ's view, and that view did not change throughout the proceedings. I will deal with this point again later when I come to discuss RP's case on the facts.

In my judgment, the arguments advanced by Mr Hemming in this case are ill-informed and tendentious. They are contradicted by the evidence, and must be rejected. I think this most unfortunate. Nobody who works in the Family Justice System regards it as perfect: most of us see it as under-resourced and struggling to deal with the work loads thrust upon it. Constructive criticism, particularly from those in a position to bring about change, is to be welcomed. I am myself in no doubt that the system must change and adapt, and I have spoken many times in public in support of my belief that there needs to be greater transparency in order to combat the partial, tendentious and inaccurate criticisms made against the system. I therefore welcome the opportunity provided by this case to demonstrate that the system has operated properly, and that the criticisms made are unfounded. "

Would I be right it assuming therefore that Lord Justice Wall is one of the judges you believe to be on the take?

johnhemming · 20/06/2011 16:12

Would I be right it assuming therefore that Lord Justice Wall is one of the judges you believe to be on the take?

No.

OP posts: