Tiger Mum's daughter wins places at Harvard and Yale

[tigercametotea]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1373921/Tiger-Mom-s-tactics-worked-Controversial-author-s-daughter-wins-place-Harvard.html#ixzz1ImWCoM3D

I also read the book and i think much of the criticism levelled against her is by people who have read about the book rather than having actually read it.

It is tongue in cheek and really funny at times. the whole point of her writing the book is that her parenting style backfired when her 13 year old daugher rebelled (not quite estranged!) so she realised she had to pull back (well a bit).

She does make some insightful and valid points. Not just about parenting but about clash of cultures and ethnic identitiy.

and she makes clear at the start what she means by 'chinese' and 'western' parenting so that she's not generalising people but rather a style. i.e. many people who use chinese parening are not chinese and many chinese do not choose her way.

Having said that, I couldn't do what she did - it sounds miserable and exhausing a lot of the time, but i will certainly think about being a bit stricter and instilling a bit of self-dicsipline in my kids (hard to do when i'm so laid back and lazy!).

Sometimes I wish i'd had pushier parents. I have to say most people i know whose parents werew on the pushier/stricter side of the parenting spectrum seem better off for it as adults.

I agree with darkbluebird

Many people comment based on newspaper articles which have created big headlines! The book is very funny indeed - I had the audio version and hearing her read was really good actually!

I can see her points actually because I am probably a much laid back Tiger Mother! I was born, raised and educated in Africa- worlds apart from the UK. I am an immigrant parent who sometimes 'struggles' with bringing up my DCs the Western way!

It is funny, she's hilarious

I heard, and don't know how true it is, that people who want to be CEOs and leaders in their field don't go to Harvard, because Harvard graduates tend to turn out excellent second-in-commands, but fewer leaders.

I don't think I could be a tiger mother - I'm not disciplined enough myself to inflict it on DS! But I will be more strict with him re. school work when he gets there (he's only 3 now) than my parents were with me - I never got into a good routine/habit with homework and it has affected me throughout life.

I agree OliPolly, thumbwhich, sakura

And I think what she was getting at is that self-discipline, hard work and commitment will ultimatley bring self-confidence, resilience and fullfillment becauase it makes you do your best and teaches you that even if you start off not being very good at something you realise that you can be good at it and achieve what you want through hard work and not giving up.

And that most children need to be taught this and won't naturally be self-disciplined enough to practice piano or do homework etc - well not to the very best of their ability anyway.

she said in an interview about her parenting philosphy:

"At its best I think it's not about achievement, but about trying to help your child be the best they can be and it's usually more than they think. It's saying 'I believe in you so much that I know you can be excellent, and I'm going to sacrifice everything and be in the trenches with you and I don't care if you hate me while you're a kid and I'm just not going to let you give up.' That's, I think, a positive message"

Although she does acknowledge that other forms of parenting can bring the results she values and cites her own husband as an example who had liberal western parenting but is 'successful' . (ie harvard grad, yale prof, best selling novelst apparantly). maybe they just feel its too risky to go that way with their own kids!

It's such a hard balance to find but on reflection I'd rather have my children fullfill their potential and hate me in their late teens/early 20's but with their A*'s than to love me to bits but still be living at home at 30 with zero prospects and there are plenty of those types around. It's very hard to start parenting somebody at 25 when they still haven't learnt the basic lessons most 10 years have got to grips with.

Darkbluebird I caught a glimpse of her on morning tv some time ago and I did find her funny - will try to get a hold of her book.

I agree with point about helping child to be best they can be. For me, that does not mean going to the best universities but if that is the end result of their hard work then good on them.
I want my dds to appreciate that good things do not just happen, you must work for them - the correlation between input and output must be taught and learned. Concepts like delayed gratification can be taught even to small children.

And this is not to say that there is no place for fun and down time but there is a balance to be had.

lljkk, I disagree wrt how to get into an Ivy League school. You need perfect grades at the highest levels plus extra curriculars, and not just classes that parents have paid for. They look for evidence of volunteer work. They also seek to balance their incoming classes in some way and can choose kids from remote country areas, racial/ethnic minorities, etc. and not just the children of suburban middle class tiger type parents. They take a good look at the letters of recommendation from teachers. But you really don't get a sniff at admission without top notch and consistent grades throughout high school, as well as your SAT or ACT scores. After you have those lined up they will look at the rest, with exceptions made for people who have an unusual life experience or story behind them, like a refugee, but the refugee needs great grades. A averages and a weighted gpa of over 4.0 (taking into account AP classes) are the norm. Most students falling short of this standard would not even bother applying.

I think the Ivy League in general and the rest of the top 20 in the US really do dominate the ranks of business, law and politics.

The US high school curriculum is dictated by college admissions requirements for the top tiers. Top colleges require a certain number of years of English, Maths, Science (at least two lab sciences), History/ social studies and a language, at the highest level possible, so Ivy League candidates tend to be academic all rounders.

Agree with mathanxiety about admission to Ivy Leagues. A few of my friends from High School went to Ivy League colleges, and they were straight As throughout as a minimum and some were doing AP in junior year. They also were doing volunteer work (summers spent in South America/Africa), played sport, proficient in music/drama, fluent in 2nd language.

Also, there has to be some sort of 'x factor.' One of my friends came from Cambodia when she was 10, yet managed to accomplish all of the above, including having published poetry in English when she was 14.

I'd rather have my children fullfill their potential and hate me in their late teens/early 20's but with their A's than to love me to bits but still be living at home at 30 with zero prospects

That's pretty much my philosophy too. The main problem I see with western parenting nowadays is that many forget they are the PARENTS and not a friend.

We've all seen/heard of stories of horror children who misbehave at school but their parents foolishly stick up for their child regardless. "Oh my little johnny wouldn't tell you to fuck off! You can't give him a detention!".

Or the complete lack of consequences. A friend of mine is really struggling with her son who is the same age as mine (9). Basically because she is so afraid of disciplining him. I have more control over him than she does because he knows I mean what I say!

We bring them up with no expectations except to "do what they want". Uni? Not if they don't want to. GCSE's? "Well not all kids are academic!" It's all true of course but flipping heck, it doesn't mean we shouldn't push them and set high expectations for them!

We don't let them wander more than 10ft away from us in case a peado runs off with them and insist anyone coming within 300m has been CRB checked to within an inch of their lives.

Then we wonder when they are older why they are ill mannered, ill disciplined and have no motivation.

You have to find the balance which works best for you and it will vary with different children too.

I think if you support the school and show the child that even if the school is wrong on something it's more important to obey the ethose of the school because life is often unfair that helps and also of couse as said above ensure children know where they stand and what is expected of them.

Well I love my DCs to bits and they seem to be quite fond of me too, but after I identified how the US education system works and how many doors (in the US) are opened by having the right university on your CV, I decided to put the DCs' eggs in the academic basket and make the best possible use of the excellent local resources available to give them their best possible chance. You can push children and really keep their noses to the grindstone without sacrificing a happy home, a social life for the children, exposure to sports (and in my DCs' case the resulting experience of realising there are children better than you at something, which is not a bad experience to go through but which the Tiger mum didn't seem to think important).

I knew one particular girl growing up in Ireland who was pushed by her doting parents and treated as a special and delicate flower for whom the ordinary rules and expectations of politeness and civility didn't apply because of her incredible intellect. Predictably, she did very well academically but she had no friends and zero social skills. Balance is the key.

Not all kids are academic. DS has had his heart set on flying since he was knee high to a duck. You can't do that in the Ivy League.

She was more or less bound to I would have thought with mother aiming for it since she was first conceived!
Lucky that she had the ability and hopefully it was what she wanted. It isn't suited to everyone.
I didn't want my DCs hating me in their late teens and I don't envisage them being with me at 30, the older 2 have already gone so I don't think it likely.
I don't see the point at making your DC work once in late teens-the ones who have been timetabled by mum are the ones who can't cope at university. They need the self discipline. In TigerMother's favour they had self discipline by late teens-she did it all earlier. It works with some personalities-you have to take into account that some go into total meltdown like the younger one.
You really have to work with the DC you have and not the one you want. Not much point in aiming for Ivy League if they want to be a landscape gardener, chef, artist etc.

She may be called many things but the one thing Amy Chua could not be called is a lazy parent.