Should unmarried couples have more rights?

[Niceguy2]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12354670

What do MN'ers think? Should unmarried couples get more rights to claim from each other like married couples?

Or if they wanted that then they should get married?

"so you would rather long term partners who were unmarried would have no protection at all"

I simply cannot see any way that a court could, or indeed should, be allowed to decide who is and who aren't partners.

The idea of them judging what sort of relationship you have is not "nice".

The idea that a housemate or lodger could lie and say that your were partners and get half of your house is not "nice".

The idea of a long term partner trying to argue that you weren't really partners but housemates is not "nice".

The only practical solution is to have some way of entering into a legally recognised partnership that the courts then cannot question, pry into or demean as a couple fight in a bitter break up.

And that's marriage.

so you would rather long term partners who were unmarried would have no protection at all

If you want protection, get married. I can't see what your argument is tbh. What you want is there already.

To add - I can understand that a church ceremony isn't for everyone but there is nothing to stop anyone from registering their relationship through the registry office.

I just don't understand why those with children don't do this. I refused to start a family with my now DH until we were married. It wasn't for my benefit but for our future children.

"the thought of being a married woman makes me wince to be honest"

Can I ask what exactly about it makes you wince?

You don't have to have a religious service if you don't want. I didn't
You don't have to change your name or use Mrs. I don't

And I think all the views about the ownership of women are a bit dated to be honest.

'I asked my friend about this and she said she was told that if they wanted the husband and wife in their ceremony they would have to get married in a church.'

That's bollocks, too.

When you apply to be married at a registry house you get a selection of vows to chose from.

And you're union is a marriage, not a 'civil union' unless you are homosexual.

You are married.

It's not just if the relationship breaks down either, I think it's even worse if one parter dies, especially if they don't have a will.

Exactly Kendodd. Go to the registry office in your lunch hour, sign the papers, keep your own name, don't use Mrs. No problem and all the protection that it's possible to have.

I was married by a registrar (not in a registry office) and said husband/wife.

'but there is nothing to stop anyone from registering their relationship through the registry office.'

That means getting married. You seem to not understand this. People who marry in a registry office are married (unless they are homosexual).

They go through a ceremony of marriage, not just 'registering their relationship'.

In many countries, in fact, a religious ceremony is not legally recognised.

The couple also has to be married by the state.

"I think it's even worse if one parter dies, especially if they don't have a will."

And then imagine it being possible in a court for a step child to argue that their parent wasn't really in a relationship with the widow(er) and so that person deserves nothing.

Hideous.

Why should the widow(er) have to argue the status of their relationship with their dead partner in a court?

It's not only utterly impractical but just plain horrible.

Theres no way I would get married just for legal protection

I don't want to be married,never have, never will

fair enough, usual. hope you have put the legal protection in place, then, to cover you and your children in the even your relationship breaks up or your partner passes on. and vice versa.

Well you are making an informed choice, and that's up to you. You might have a lot of assets that you want to protect by not being married, if that's the case, very wise.

I just don't want to be joined to my partner in the eyes of the law or god...

Fair play to you. If you don't want to be joined in the eyes of the law then you won't want any of the protections that the law gives married people? Because to acknowledge them would mean in the eyes of the law you and your partner were joined. So you wouldn't want these rights given to unmarried people like you? Am I understanding correctly?

I mean, I'd want them. If god forbid my partner died, I wouldn't want his family coming in and taking over, kicking me out of the home, having the bank accounts etc. To give one example out of a thousand.

Well that's exactly what you have at the moment, why are you saying you do want rights?

in answer to the OP i think that if you want the rights of being married and having a legally recognised partnership then you have to get a legal document to prove it. So nope i don't think unmarried couples should have the same legal rights as married couples

I'm in a pension scheme that automatically gives a pension to the dead employee's partner and children if the employee is married to that person. If they are not married the pension trustees can "consider" whether to give out that pension, even if you have made an "expression of wish". The last thing you want, when bereaved, is trying to claim a pension under duress.

So we are married because:
DH gets automatic rights to DD, otherwise my dad is legal guardian of her if I died
We both get a pension from each other's pensions scheme if either of us dies
We can pass our house from one to the other if one of us dies without inheritance tax
It made our wills very easy to write, and we only have wills in case we both died and our will expresses the guardianship of DD

The biggest issue I see is how do you prove if you were actually living with someone as though married? MArriage is essentially a legal contract, otherwise it is just an endless argument that only lawyers benefit from.
I did not change my name, I am not a Mrs. Everything we own is owned jointly.

In legal terms being married is easier for kids, property and inheriting.

There you go. good reasons all.

I must admit that I don't understand the objection to getting married.

It is a contract. It gives you rights - I couldn't put those more eloquently than miggsie.

People who are not married want those rights.

They don't want to get married because they don't like the idea of being married.

But entering into agreements, having laws that give you the same rights as though you were married, without you being married, is being married. You won't call it marriage, but the name is all that will be different.

So I truly don't see the point in going to all that hassle. To give people something that already exists in order for them to enter into the exact same agreement, with the same rights as they would have if they entered into the agreement that already exists.

[boggle]

tbh, it would be a lot easier to take the existing contract called 'marriage' and call it something else. Since the only thing that I can see that people object to - is that it's called marriage.

What Hecate and stubbornhubby said.

We also need to consider all the people who have deliberately chosen not to get married precisely because they do not want the legal commitment. (or at least are not ready for it yet).

What are those people supposed to do if the law treats cohabitees the same as married couples? are they supposed to never live with anyone?

I'm sure there are plenty of people who have lived with or been in long term relationships with people they didn't want to be legally bound to.

I never said I wanted the same rights as a married person ,and getting married just for those rights makes a mockery of marriage imo

thats not what marriage represents to me

Yes, usualsuspect is one of them.

i think each case should be judged on it's own merit should the case arise. it shouldn't just be so black and white.

was just listening to the phone in on news regarding this - ususal and i aren't alone by a long shot

something could be done to make it easier for couples in our position.

imoho anyway

Yes you're right marriage is a lot more than just a bunch of legal rights, it is all the romantic stuff as well. At least it is for me, it's just lucky that it comes with all the protections as well.