Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Conservatives maintain that every working family now pays £3000 a year to fund lifestyles of those who do not work.

139 replies

moondog · 30/12/2010 19:52

In addition, there are 3.9 million British households where nobody works-an increase of 200 000 over a decade.

Blimey.

OP posts:
Sidge · 30/12/2010 21:51

Also is it just via income tax they are talking about, or all the other sources of taxation?

I would think those figures aren't that easy to calculate...

MissQue · 30/12/2010 21:54

Perhaps if they stopped all these job cuts then there would be less people out of work for a start! How are people meant to pay income taxes to help our country out of recession when they are claiming unemployment benefits because their jobs were snatched away? If everyone who WANTS to work had a decent job to go to, it wouldn't be half as much of a problem to take care of those who CAN'T work. But no, they are forced out of good jobs and into low paid crap jobs so they need more benefit help to survive.

I fail to see the common sense in any of it.

BaroqinAroundTheChristmasTree · 30/12/2010 22:06

anyhow - these figures (the 3.9 million thing) came out in September.......are they ermm, not slightly old news now???

BaroqinAroundTheChristmasTree · 30/12/2010 22:11

\link{http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/220115/Benefits-cost-each-family-3-000\seems the £3000 story is new though}

although that article is shite. It talks about the benefits for working age ....then talks about the total amount including housing benefits and gives a figure that includes pensions and all the rest of it.

And I'm wondering where they got their random £48million for working age benefits from.

moondog · 30/12/2010 22:33

As the bloke from the Taxpapyers' Alliance says

?At the moment it does not always pay to return to employment ? it is crucial that claimants have a real incentive to work as it will help the economy to recover.?

I can fully understand why people don't want to work if they are left worse off. That it ever got to this is madness.

OP posts:
BaroqinAroundTheChristmasTree · 30/12/2010 22:39

and lets not forget they've made it even harder now for working famlies with young children to return to work - cuttting the childcare element to 70%

What's even more madness is that while is often does leave you better off (on paper at least) to return to work.......many people returning to work find themselves receiving more from the government in top-ups than they did on benefits with no work!

Snorbs · 30/12/2010 22:43

Sounds like the Government PR machine laying the "lazy scrounging scum" groundwork before an horrendous round of cuts to benefits in the new year.

Happy 2011 Sad

BaroqinAroundTheChristmasTree · 30/12/2010 22:43

of course if we had proper figures to discuss with this debate could be much better.

What we need is

How many working age households are there in the UK?

How many working family households are in receipt of benefits

How many non working family households are in receipt of JSA/IS, Carers Allowance, DLA, ESA

How much in benefits are the non-working age costing out of that £3000?

(or does no-one pay for them??)

BaroqinAroundTheChristmasTree · 30/12/2010 22:44

Snorbs - the 3.9 million households data came out in September - before they announced the first load of cuts.

And I'm pretty sure I've seen/read the £3000 (or thereabouts) thing prior to the article I found from yesterday.

electra · 30/12/2010 22:49

The conservatives can fuck the fuck off - they love to shit on those less fortunate than themselves.

electra · 30/12/2010 22:51

By the way, it's called propaganda

jackstarlightstarbright · 30/12/2010 23:04

The numbers don't make sense. At least, if the benefit bill increased by less than 10% over 12 years - then that's not too bad.

The Express is a seriously poor newspaper.

TwoIfBySea · 30/12/2010 23:20

I just moved from an area where a lot of people didn't work, had never worked and had no intention of working.

Despite what some think there are a frightening amount of people out there who are living quite nicely on benefits and don't see the point of actually earning the money themselves.

Nearly all of my neighbours had every games console going, large flat screen tvs and the kind of luxury items I would have to save up to buy. There is a whole mentality out of there that isn't being looked at and discussed because no one wants to point out it is happening and perhaps hurt the feelings of whoever.

And blaming it all on the Tories is becoming very boring. Really? Layabouts have been around longer than that - they can now do it on the state.

ThisIsANiceCage · 30/12/2010 23:21

Again, it depends what you mean by "returning to work".

Some companies "employ" people on zero-hour contracts: employee is paid by the hour, which might be zero in any given week. But the "employee" is considered by the benefits system to be employed (not eligible for JSA) and must be fully available whenever the employer says jump (so can't do other work).

If this were for mega-bucks consultants, that's one thing. But this is for minimum wage "jobs".

Desiderata · 30/12/2010 23:30

Oh, we can always rely on electra to be emotional on the point of hard finance.

Many of those 3.9 million households come from overseas, and are either not registered to work, or do not work in any sphere which the government can regulate.

In addition, there are countless indiginous families who have lived for the past two generations on a welfare ticket.

It's got nothing to do with the Tories. If it hadn't been for the idle left-wing, we'd have been cool.

Remotew · 30/12/2010 23:42

Taxes are taken off us in many ways not just tax and NIC. Everything we buy apart from food will be subject to 20% tax, also council tax, road tax the list goes on and on so I can see how a figure of £3k for every family would come about.

tingletangle · 30/12/2010 23:44

I am proud that my taxes are able to support those who cannot work. I hope we personally give a hell of a lot more than 3K.

Desiderata · 30/12/2010 23:54

But everyone pays tax, tingle. It's nothing to be proud of.

Even someone who's never paid tax in their life, pays it whenever he buys a Greggs sausage roll.

tingletangle · 30/12/2010 23:55

I know everyone pays tax but some people begrudge paying it. Perhaps proud is not the right word but I am pleased that I have the chance to help those who have less advantage than me in life. So when the OP says we all pay 3K to help such people I think good and I hope it is more.

huddspur · 30/12/2010 23:56

My parents are one of these households (dad hasn't worked since I was 6 and my mum has never worked) and a lot of people I grew up with also don't work so I think the figure is believable

BaroqinAroundTheChristmasTree · 31/12/2010 00:03

"Many of those 3.9 million households come from overseas, and are either not registered to work, or do not work in any sphere which the government can regulate."

You mean like foreign students? Or asylum seekers (who by law are not allowed to work - no matter how long their application is taking to process). Or the ones with work visas who are by LAW not allowed to have any recourse to public funds (ie benefits)?

Where is the breakdown of these non working households?

How much are those tax payers who don't need benefits to survive paying for the low income working families?

" and the kind of luxury items I would have to save up to buy. "

Xmas Shock horror - guess what - so do people on benefits, (or they get them on expensive credit)

Desiderata · 31/12/2010 00:23

Oh! How boring are you?

Everyone knows that foreigners are working for cash in hand.

Bless them.

moondog · 31/12/2010 11:06

I'm reallyb interested in how all of IDS's plans for welfare reform pan out.
He's great as is Frank Field. I really admire this working across parties in an adult fashion.

My favourite writer on all of these matters (always to be relied on to treat them in an objective manner) is Theadore Dalrymple.

About to open his latest book
'Spolit Rotten; The Toxic Cult of Sentimentality'.

I wish he ran the country.

OP posts:
electra · 31/12/2010 11:12

'Oh, we can always rely on electra to be emotional on the point of hard finance.'

The conservatives don't make any secret of their (at best) ambivalence of those genuinely in need.

I think I could be forgiven for feeling somewhat emotional about it given that my disabled daughter is one of those they are going to be picking on.

MissQue · 31/12/2010 11:14

I also used to live in an area where there were people who lived on benefits their whole lives, what makes me sad and angry is that nobody challenges them to change. They know their way around the benefits system and cream it for all it's worth, but still, the TVs and consoles and whatever, come from credit, and not low interest credit, it's the Provident types who provide credit at 10x the cost. They come around and promise you can have large amounts of money and you only have to give them a fiver a week, these people are largely uneducated and don't know what the long term cost is, they just see nice lump sum and only a fiver a week to pay back.

Sadly, some of them also live on the proceeds of crime, small time drug dealing, burglary, car theft etc. They don't know anything else, and nobody tries to help them to see what else is out there. They are often ghettoised, so they can live in their own little bubble, cut off from the real world, where the rest of us live.

I could hate them with every bone in my body, I was forced to live on their estate, where I didn't fit in and was burgled, beaten up and harrassed for it, but I pity them. They have no aspirations, no future and no chance of doing better for themselves, and, due to them not having enough resources, the likes of social services and other agencies who could help, they get no help and just carry on breeding feral kids for the next generation of the same.