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£100000 a year but too poor to be able to afford a third child

276 replies

emkana · 25/09/2005 12:22

I might be mad to get into this again, after that money thread I started the other week, but I just feel like I'm on a completely different planet again, after reading this article. It raises some good points comparing Britain and France, but the first example used is just ludicrous IMO.

article here

OP posts:
Fio2 · 26/09/2005 10:42

if we all had 1500 left after bills there wouldnt be a LIDL

Toothache · 26/09/2005 10:42

Shall we have a MN whip-around to raise some cash for them?

Earlybird · 26/09/2005 10:42

frogs - a bit of a digression....can you be specific about the outstanding state primary schools in central London? I'm not a native Londoner (not British for that matter), but I do live in central London. Would love to get info from someone who knows, as I find the whole school system baffling....

Caligula · 26/09/2005 10:44

What about outstanding state secondary schools? Children don't stay primary age forever.

lockets · 26/09/2005 10:46

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expatinscotland · 26/09/2005 10:46

£1500 disposable income/month!? . That's more than a lot of people have to live on a month - BEFORE rent, council tax, insurance, etc.

NomDePlume · 26/09/2005 10:46

But can they afford a holiday to St Lucia ? I certainly couldn't, and we're in an average house in the same income bracket outside of London with children in state schools ! TBH, I think a lot of posters on here think that £100k pa would go a lot further than it does in reality (or at least in my reality).

expatinscotland · 26/09/2005 10:48

But there seem to be a LOT of people in London working in Tesco, cinemas, etc. and you KNOW they make nowhere near £100,000/pa. How on Earth do THEY cope?

lockets · 26/09/2005 10:48

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CarolinaMoon · 26/09/2005 10:48

Caligula, they blatantly can't afford to be in that class if they can't support 3 kids in the manner to which they'd like to be accustomed. As you say, that's not a lot of kids really.

They're aspiring to live like people with an income nearer the half million mark, IMHO.

(haven't read the whole thread yet, so sorry if I'm repeating other posts)

Fio2 · 26/09/2005 10:49

why do people get so obsessed over money and incomes?

Caligula · 26/09/2005 10:49

They are in permanent debt, they don't save and they have no pension to look forward to.

In the main.

Obviously there are exceptions, but we have the highest level of debt in history.

mummytosteven · 26/09/2005 10:49

I think I see the point that Kaz was trying to make - that disposable income is a fraction of your gross income - but that applies to all of us, and I suspect is worse for those on low incomes.

NomDePlume · 26/09/2005 10:50

Absolutely Carolina. I wholeheartedly agree with the lifestyle closer to £500k remark.

Caligula · 26/09/2005 10:51

But CarolinaMoon, they are probably going by what their parents could afford, what their parents earned and what kind of jobs their parents did.

And they're puzzled that they can't afford what their parents did.

aloha · 26/09/2005 10:52

Yes, people's expectations are very, very high. Lots of twentysomething girls think they 'ought' to be able to afford Jimmy Choo shoes, but actually they are fantastically expensive and way beyond what a 'normal' person could afford. Hence stratospheric levels of debt.

Fio2 · 26/09/2005 10:53

does anyone not know or even care what class they are
thought we lived in a classless society nowadays

Toothache · 26/09/2005 10:54

NDP - You must have extraordinary outgoings then!

We have a joint income now of double what it was 3 months ago.... So our outgoings are geared toward the lower income (all bills/food/childcare/petrol = £1600).... therefore we now have disposable income that we could never have dreamed of 3 months ago! Okay most of it is paying off credit card debts at the moment, but if there wasn't that then we could easily afford a holiday to StLucia!!!

Its all relative to how many financial committments you get yourself tied into! And if you get yourself tied into massive amounts of outgoings (other than mortage/utilities) then thats your choice.

expatinscotland · 26/09/2005 10:54

A lot of people are in permenant debt, have no savings or pension (can't afford one) and eek an existence on far, far less than £100,000/pa. I'd venture to guess it's a total misconception that a lot of today's debt is the result of living an extravagent lifestyle, especially given today's sky high rents, council tax increases, transport costs, student loan debt, etc.

NomDePlume · 26/09/2005 10:55

DH's pension is £700 a month, so we do have high outgoings, but they are mainly to do with investing in the future.

NomDePlume · 26/09/2005 10:56

I am going to stop talking on here, I can see that I'm not painting a great picture....

Caligula · 26/09/2005 10:56

Ha. That's what they'd like us to believe Fio.

We'll live in a classless society when our children's educational standards, access to music, sport and culture isn't determined by what jobs their parents do. And when what income we have as an adult, isn't overwhelmingly predicted by what income our parents had.

Until then, class is alive and kicking. Only it kicks some harder than others. Obvioulsy, Mr and Mrs 100K feel it's kicking them terribly hard. (Poor loves)

frogs · 26/09/2005 10:58

Okay, the really schmanzy primary schools (those that do the whole blazer-and-dinky-little-boater thing that seems to be so important to some people) are: St George's Hannover Square (W1), St Peter's Eaton Square (SW1) and Our Lady of Victories (Kensington, but Cafflics only). I expect there are others, but those are the ones I know of.

There are lots of schools that are also v. good but don't do the fancy trappings. Whereabouts are you, Earlybird? Being churchy helps, but not essential. Check out the Good Schools Guide, they specialise in private schools, but also list the kind of state schools that people who can't afford private might be prepared to consider.

Apart from that, if you want a decent primary there's not much substitute for your own legwork, both virtual and actual. Ofsted is a good start, but there are some excellent schools you might not want to send your children to if you want them to have at least some friends from similar backgrounds to their own. If you look at a lot of Ofsted reports you can learn to read between the lines.

And there are some outstanding secondary schools as well. But you have to read the writing on the wall early and well to make sure that you meet the requirements, in terms of location, church-going habits or your child's propensity to pass assessment tests.

No-one said it was straightforward. But it can be done. And judging by the stress-levels of private-school parents of my acquaintance, that isn't a walk in the park either.

Expat: I'll see you there.

Caligula · 26/09/2005 10:59

expat - totally agree.

Debt isn't always the result of extravagance, it's often the result of not having enough money for basics. Or having enough for the basics, but when a disaster happens (like the washing machine breaks down, or a visit to the dentist) the credit card needs to come out.

Toothache · 26/09/2005 11:00

NDP - lol... s'ok I know you're a kept woman with a rich DH.
Yes your outgoings are about investing in the future.... because you and your DH choose to do that. £700 per month into a pension seems excessive to me.... I would say half that and save £350 per month in an ISA.... you'd be in StLucia in no time.