Animal tests get renewed backing

[monkeytrousers]

here

I think this is a tricky one. I'm a vegetarian, mostly for moral and ethical reasons and I'd like to hope that one day science and medicine could move away from this area. But at the same time I couldn't campaign against such testing while it remains vital to medical research, as I would support stem cell testing also.

I was briefly a member of the BUAV but their language was increasingly sensational and overly emotive and that made me doubt their findings. I wanted a more middle ground stance.

What does anyone else think?

and if you banned animal testing 100%, where would those monstrous psycopaths get their thrills? On your children!!!!!

This isn't a thread about banning all animal testing. It's a discussion of pragmacy and ethics.

BUAV is not a terrorist organisation, no more than the RSPCA. That's an appalling slur which frankly undermines your case.

As for big pharma, while they do of course do lots of valuable work, they also engage in some pretty murky and dangerous practices. See Seroxat and Vioxx for the most recent examples. They are not simply morally 'good' organisations.

But there are those who want a blanket ban, there are even people who feel like that on MN...the last time I discussed this it was the cause of my one and only (temoprary ) flounce! There are people out there who want to see all animal testing banned and they tell all sorts of half truths to back up their veiwpoint

favorates being animal testing didn't stop thalidomide causing so much damage. What they forget to tell you is that significant animal testing only started after the thalidomide disaster....the law was changed in 1968 because of the case.

They say that animal physiology and biochemistry have no resemblence to himan, not true.

They show pictures that are either many years old or come from unregulated countries.

The list goes on, sadly.

The reality is that the vast majority of animal used in reaserch are not fluffy bunnies of beautiful beagles, but rats abd mice. What do most people do if they have a art in the garden, answer they poison it with a warfarin derivate that make it die by internal bleeding....not nice but you don't see people waving posters about that on Saterday afternoon do you? Because rats are not cute and we know that they carry disease.

Reserch is highly regulated in the UK. If you ban it here, companies will do the reserch that is needed in other countries and that will only add to animal suffering.

But your appalling slurs are worthy, right?

Ameriscot, what's your point?

What's my point?

I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours.

I'm not aware I've made any lazy and unjust accusations attempting to demonise organisations or people that support animal testing, no, Ameriscot.

Maybe that wasn't your intention, Edam, but if you re-read your posts you can see that you have made just such remarks about "industry".

I wanted to discuss a complicated issue. Thatwas my point. IMO you're not contributing to that, just trying to get a rise out of people by being Bushite.

No, I didn't. I said big pharma does valuable work but engages in some pretty murky practices and cited Seroxat and Vioxx as cases in point. I used to work with expert reviewers who research drug safety, as it happens, so I have grounds for that opinion. Yours may be different.

I am being Bushite, ROFLPIMP! What has Bush got to do with anything?

I'm not getting a rise out of anyone! I'm just giving my point of view - one that isn't based on tripe put out by eco-terrorists.

I can't be arsed to trawl through your posts, Edam, but here is the first example I saw:

"industry getting away with extreme acts of cruelty"

I used to work in drug safety as well. Small old world. No-one in their right mind would say that drugs are safe, nothing in life is. I'm just at a loss to understand how they will become safer without the animal testing?

Some drugs will always slip through the net, that is a sad fact of life at present.

I can aslo say that I have never witnessed any cover up and was involved with two drug withdrawals during my time in the industry. I was the person responsible for reporting ADRs and I can auure you that I did my job to both the letter and the sprit of the law.

More non-sequiturs. This is boring now.

Sorry?

Monkey - not-non-sequitur - just responding to a non-adjacent post.

Don't take it personally.

So, what does Bush have to do with this topic?

Not you HMB. I can't be bothered. Going to Tesco's to have some fun.

Just did Sansburies to get the stuff we need for this weekends camping, that brightened up my day!

How sad is that ??

Emphasis on the 'shite'..

um AmeriScot, that you and Bush both don´t listen to other points of views

Yes, must get some bread and milk. Maybe even some cheese..hmmm

Hacve a nice weekend HMB's too!

There's not a lot of listening to others' POVs, one either side. Or do the fuzzy bunny lot morally superior on that one as well?