HE at secondary age - bad idea?

[soupdela]

DS is due to start secondary in sept - he has mostly enjoyed primary but definitely a bit less with each year he moved up and yr 6 has been a real grind since xmas with preparation for sats. Anyway, he is going to local secondary rated 'outstanding' by ofsted but also pretty notorious for bad behaviour and run-down facilities. I promised him that if he is not happy we can try HE but anyone got experience of starting HE at age 11+ - is this exactly the time they need to integrate more? He's an only child so could get pretty lonely...? Grateful for any advice

Hi Marjorie, think I know you from other forums.

As far as GCSE is concerned, I now have a small French/Spanish group of 8 children. So because I'm a languages teacher and know the syllabus (although it's just changed and has quite an impact on private candidates, and not in a good way) I've been aiming at exam preparation since we started. We use Galore Park for both languages and I'm aiming to finish Book 2 next summer (so end of year 8 for DS1). When we move onto Book 3, I'll start really prep'ing them for GCSE - those that are old enough/interested and I'll ask if my school can help out with the oral exams and written modules.

For Maths, I'm waiting till he's done the first 2 GP maths books and he also uses the website conquermaths (they do a home ed rate and cover KS3 and 4 maths). Then we'll see how he gets on with some exam papers. I'm thinking about Geography as well. And Spanish will probably follow French. These are the subjects that are likely to be easiest for us. I think he fancies doing Science and possibly Latin. English I will leave till he's a bit older - he's just not mature enough to cope with it yet. He's another one that's quite young in his outlook. He also hasn't had much of a work ethic till recently!

thanks for that info. will check out conquermaths as well.

We're quietly hoping that our DCs might like to try Latin! Not necessarily to GCSE, just for the experience. I did it in yr7 and loved it.

I don't mark essays, we haven't really done any . Luckily none of the subjects DD1 is doing this year need long essay answers. The geography needs quite detailed answers and that's been tricky at times. At the moment DD1 will see a question such as "what would make people in developing countries move to urban areas?" and she will put "because of the jobs", which will give her one mark on a question that there are 7 marks for. We've done a lot of looking at the marks available, so if there are 7, she knows she needs at least 7 separate points, usually incuding causes and knock on effects. So I will get her to try and expand her thinking. Then, after that, we look at the mark schemes and examiners reports and see exactly what they are looking for for the highest marks. To be honest, that's all I am really capable of doing because I don't think I would really be up to "marking an essay" as such (again). But we are getting nearer to what I think the examiners want, although it is a bit of an uphill process at the moment. Hopefully she will at least scrape a C and then I will be very pleased.

Maths and Biology have been very much easier because it's either right or wrong, especially maths. She got 100% in her first maths module in November - I was really proud of both of us!!

Marjorie, you can do GCSE any time you like. First of all I would email as many private schools as possible (state won't help you IME) and see if anyone in your area will take him as a private candidate. From there you can see what board they do and download the spec. Then try downloading a past paper, which will give you an idea of what needs to be covered, and you can tackle it bit by bit. If you need help with any part of this process, post again on here. He can take them any time, but you usually need to make tentative enquiries a bit beforehand. We asked DD's maths place last summer and had to get the entry for the first module in in the autumn. For the other two which are summer exams only, we entered her end of Jan this year, but had been in contact with the school well before that.

I am hoping that DD2 will be able to take foundation maths in Year 8 - so not this coming year, but the year after that.It's possible she could do it next year but I think that would involve a lot of stress and pushing her, so I think we will take our time. Apart from the fact that it would be nice to have that one under her belt, there's no rush and I have to remind myself that we are looking at an exam that lots of 16 year olds struggle with.

Marjorie, as your grandson is a looked after child, I'd see if you can approach anyone for funding or for access to state schools for exam centres. You may not get anywhere but if you have a helpful LA (ours is, but I know not all are) then they should be trying to pull all the stops out for him. You will know better than me what is available for him, but I'd try any avenue before you part with your own cash! They normally don't want to know and having to fund them yourself is basically tough, but I know they are meant to help looked after children to achieve and so you might just get somewhere.

mathsmadmummy, there are quite a few Latin resources out there - apparently it's making a bit of a comeback!

Minimus is Latin for small people - don't know anything about it really as we haven't used it.

CLLC is Cambridge Latin and they have a linked qualification now which is the equivalent to GCSE but that's all I know about it. Their books are fun and interesting but not great on the logic and grammar of Latin. Lot of translation into English, no translation into Latin (don't think it's required for GCSE).

Galore Park are more rigorous and not quite as interesting! They deal very well with the grammar and logic and build up knowledge and skills slowly. Lots of translation both ways but sentences and short paragraphs rather than long texts. Emphasis is on accuracy.

I started with CLLC, switched to GP and now combine the two!!

thamks tinuviel that's great. I'm racking my brains to think what book we used in yr7, but that was in 1998-9!

I started a file recently where I note all the HE ideas/resources I find, so this all goes on there. MN is such a great help!

I'm surprised (or perhaps not surprised ) and disappointed that the Latin GCSE doesn't require translation into Latin. I had to translate into Latin aged 11?! But the whole 'Dumbing Down' thing is a whole other issue.

My DS1 left school at the end of primary to HE. We're using an internet school and we and he are very happy with it. He's covering most subjects and will do IGCSEs (no coursework requirement) when he's ready.

Like others here we thought HE would be more of an advantage at secondary school age and, as we were allocated the 'stab school' by the LA, we felt we had no choice.

My advice would be to go for it! We needed to make sure he has enough clubs etc for stuff that the internet school couldn't cover and to agree to taxi as and when to see friends, but we haven't looked back One lovely side-effect is that he now gets on fantastically (most of the time) with the siblings he seemed to hate before.

mmm, was it Caecilius, Metella and Quintus? If so, then it's Cambridge Latin. That seems to be the most popular course. I just wish I could find the book I used 83-85. It was really good - the first 4 units were about Crassus and Claudia!! After that the units were Greek/Roman stories told simply.

Sorry for thread hijack but if anyone knows that book, can you remember the title?

You definitely don't have to translate into Latin now for GCSE, just the other way round. My mum says the past papers for Latin are much easier than when she was at school. I was never allowed to do Latin at school, (so I can't help with the book, I'm afraid, Tinuviel) so it's great that my girls are getting the chance. My mum started DD2 when she came out of school at 8, and my brother teaches DD1.

DD2 did have minimus as she was so young, but even at 8 she quickly caught onto Cambridge Latin and seemed to prefer that, really. She's worked through it very slowly because of her age, but now at 10 she is on the second book of Cambridge Latin course, and enjoying it very much. DD1 and DD2 have a habit of insulting each other in Latin, which does make me laugh!

Cambridge Latin has a good website which backs up all the learning.

musicposy - I have just read what you said about KS3 maths with great interest, our (just) 14 year old is in school but he is not too far ahead of our 9 year old He'd son in maths. He is ahead, obviously, but not 4 years ahead and we were all saying the other day what a waste of time KS3 is, he seems to have been treading water whilst the rest caught up ! We are going to take him out as I'm sure KS4 will be the same, looking at some of the GCSE's and IGCSE's, I'm sure he could do those now, so what will he spend the next 2 years doing ?

Can I ask about what you did regarding KS3 for maths ? Did you just ignore it and go straight onto GCSE work ?

Many thanks

Can someone explain what IGCSE's are, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease?

Someone will probably have a better explanation but I see them as GCSE's but without any coursework and therefore easier for home educators/private candidates.

Yes, they're basically GCSEs. It actually stands for International GCSE so the idea is they are accessible for people all over the world to take them. They are exam only for the most part. This is why we're doing them - you don't have to find someone to moderate coursework with all the hassle that entails. The reason we are doing maths for GCSE is there is no coursework for that one so it was easy to arrange.

Private schools are increasingly turning to IGCSEs as they are generally better regarded, a bit like the International Baccalaureate is at A level.

The downside is that they are definitely harder. We've looked at the Geography GCSE and there's really no comparison to what DD1 is doing on IGCSE - the GCSE is miles easier. Also the sciences are separate subjects like they used to be, so you have to cover a huge depth of knowledge compared to science GCSE. I'm not sure we'd have done them by choice because we've definitely made our lives much harder for ourselves, but GCSEs seemed insurmountable for most subjects from a logistical point of view.

Not too sure whether grandson would want to be bothered with GCSEs.
He is very much like my youngest son who was more a 'hands-on' kid than academic.
I really don't think many kids need to do all the GCSE's they do in school.
Having said that at nearly 11 this year, I want to start putting grandson onto some path that will lead to him perhaps going to college to get some hands on skills as opposed to going down the uni road.
Any thoughts?

There are now 'Diploma Courses' in some more practical subjects but am not sure how accessible they are to home ed children. Some KS4 (14-16 year olds) spend some days doing work experience, some days in college and some in school. It may be worth asking your LA about college courses that would be available at 14.

Well, I thought I might play the 'looked after child' card for the college thing, Tinuviel

Lots of colleges (in fact, most) do courses for 14-16 year olds, both vocational and accelerated learning. You'll find that often some do one and some the other, so you'll need to look for one that does vocational courses. They won't bend their age rules at all, (we tried to persuade a couple to take DD1 for this year, but no joy) so they take you at the start of Year 10.

DD1 is doing a GCSE on an accelerated learning course next year and being home educated didn't seem to matter at all - they didn't bat an eyelid. Maybe we were just lucky! It cost us £50 for the year (which I thought was a bargain compared to tutoring costs) but I reckon you might be able to get that free if you pull a few strings.

You have lots of time on your side to look around and vocational college courses for this age range are getting more popular each year as the goverment finally realises the folly of pushing every single child through the same stupid "must get x number of GCSEs" route.

I thought as time goes on that grandson would decide his future path in the next couple of years and so would gear his study up to that instead of a lot of stuff that is not really relevant.
I want him to have an education but not one that consists of a whole lot of crap that according to my own children they thought was pretty useless.
One son went to one of the best grammars in the country. Hated it. Now he's an officer in the army.
Youngest is more like grandson - hated school - now he runs his own computer business from home.
It's like they're now saying 'What was that about, for Christ's sake!
I like the home ed for our most important reason and that is you get to see what the child is really good at and what they really want instead of being influenced by targets, tests, homework etc.

I know our local sixth form runs GCSE English and Maths courses as part of the adult education evening classes. They were really cheap (between £20 and £40, can't quite remember) and I might see if DS1 can do them when he hits year 10. Although we could do them at home and will do a lot of the work beforehand, I don't see how I could do them as cheaply TBH and with as little fuss. No exam centre to sort out, no moderating coursework/arranging for controlled conditions. He just turns up each week, does what he needs to do and turns up for the exam.

I am assuming he'll want to do A levels - he's quite 'academic' so it will be easier to get him into the sixth form with a few GCSEs under his belt.