Can HE be a cover cfor child abuse? discussion on Radio 2 today.......

[Yurtgirl]

I know I know Jeremy Vine and his show not what everybody enjoys but...........

He has just announced that todays show will feature a discussion called "Can HE be a cover for child abuse?"

Anyone confident enough to phone up and have a rant?????????????

also, one of the reasons we withdrew DD2 from school was because her class teacher told me that she hadn't noticed she was in any way upset, but to come back and talk to her if "she got really miserable". I do appreciate that was an isolated incident of a particularly unsympathetic and uninvolved teacher though.

Callisto - whether we like to admit it or not, far too many asian girls drop out of school around 14. Their parents claim they are HEd but that is often not the case. Some are married off or sent to work.
If it were white middle class girls there would be uproar.

can't understand why anyone would want to HE...must be so boring for the child...poor little things.

definately daftpunk - being locked up in a cupboard under the stairs all day, not meeting any other people at all, poor DD3

Daftpunk - Why would it be boring?
My son is bored at school more often than he is interested

To regard HE children as 'poor little things' is extremely patronising

well, i think it must be pretty boring.

school gives children alot more than just an academic education you know, it gives children the opportunity to mix and learn how to get on with other children.

Um........... So does HE

yurtgirl....children need to be "out there" you can't wrap them in cotton wool all their lives.

Ok daftpunk so thats three times you have said something I have found patronising!

Time for me to go I think

FWIW my children are currently at school - My reasons for being inspired by HE are certainly not to do with wrapping them in cottonwool

"school gives children alot more than just an academic education you know, it gives children the opportunity to mix and learn how to get on with other children."

Fuck. Why didn't I think of that before I decided to Home Educate my children?

daftpunk - if you look around the HE threads, you'll see that your preconceptions about what HE are like are inaccurate. It's not boring or isolating, and does not involve wrapping them up in cotton wool. Most people can't picture what it's like until they get more involved - certainly until I really looked into it, I pictured it like the Simpson's episode where Bart gets excluded and Marge sets up a classroom in their garage, complete with school desk, blackboard, clock and bell . That has no connection whatsoever to ho people educate their children outside of school!

Litchick - absolutely and it is scandalous that this happens. But it happens to girls that are raised by a particular demographic which should be targeted. I would say that the vast, vast majority of white/black/chinese etc girls are not forced into marraige at 14.

Daftpunk - what exactly is your point?

it's a bit like saying that because some parents don't feed their children 5 portions of fruit and veg a day, then every parent needs to be visited and assessed and have their fridges inspected and evaluated. And have some recipes handed out, and maybe some compulsary cookery lessons. Because if it stops one child not getting their daily vitiamin allowance, then it's worth it. Not as though you have anything to hide?
How many of us woudl voluntarily accept clipboard-wielding LA officials into our kitchens because a very small number of other people don't parent "properly"?

"Do you really take issue with one more person looking out for the welfare of your children?"

Well my children do.
They were deregistered from school eight years ago, after finding their educational needs were simply not met in schools.
They suffered humiliation, bullying and ridicule.
They hated it.
That's why we took them out.
The LA knew all about them in schools-anddidn't give two hoots. Why the hell should they allow those same people to come in and make judgements on whether my children are safe now, in the hands of their parents, when they didn't do anything about all the problems before.

My children would tell you they were not safe in schools, that is why they are home educated!

I have seen this pased around interent lists recently.

Every Child Matters?
Each week: 450,000 children are bullied in school.
Each year: more than 360,000 children injured in schools
Each year: at least 16 children commit suicide as a result of school bullying
Each year: an estimated 1 million children truant
Each year: more than 1 in 6 children leave school unable to read, write or
add up

Anyway-how would one person who knows little or nothing about home ed, coming into a home ed family home, once a year, going to spot abuse?
When all of the children who died in Doncaster/Birmingham/Eunice Spry's children/Victoria Climbie/baby P were known to Social Services?

If there is a welfare concern, then the LA/SS already have powers to go into a home and see a child to investigate any concerns.

Litchick -I'd be interested to see research to back this supposed link to home ed and enforced marriages-The Government can't seem to find any.

Surely anyone wanting to make their child marry abroad simply takes them out of the UK for a holiday-six weeks is long enough for that to happen.

my HE son has just ome back from his golf lesson, tonight he will go to scouts and tomorrow he will go to a swimming club.

Obviously inbetween times, he will be locked up and not see a soul

For some the 'social' side of schooling consists of taking a few whacks round the head at lunchbreak, or hiding in the library until the bell goes again.

Jshoes - there's no causal link between HE and the treatment of some girls.
However the government are beginning to recognise ( hello guys welcome to the party - asian women's groups have been banging this particular drum for ages now) that when certain parents remove their girls around puberty and claim to HE it is not always what it seems.
These parents use the tag 'HE' to protect themselves from the system. They know perfectly well that the LA can do bugger all.

litchick
I know this is being claimed by some groups.
I have been party to that party for some time thank you.

However the groups I talked to, admitted that there would be nothing to stop families just taking a child away from school for a holiday-and they don't have to say they are home educating.
If there is reason to suspect a welfare concern, then the LA/SS should do investigate, they do have the powers to.

How would saying they were going to change monotoring of home education change any of the dangers to these young Asian people?

OMFG - I am new to HE and already I am thinking - "what's HOME educating about it?" So far I have been told I will be having 6 monthly visits from a county inspector, I have been told to submit sample planning and and an educational philosophy, I have been told to seek advice from local headteachers about what to do next academically and I have also been told that my teaching must show progression and development.....

Right so basically I am back in the classroom again then?........

With everything the LEA expect from me - I would have to ignore my DC for at least a few hours a day to keep up with the paperwork!

Oh and thats on top of the regular inspections I receive from Ofsted anyway for my childmiding business.

But of course as a HEer I am clearly abusing my children as I am apparently "more likely" to be than the skanky family with 500 children who never seem to have a bath, and never wear seat belts let alone have car seats in the car who live round the corner (because their children go to school.....Ah it all makes sense now)

Excuse sarky and moaning post but am pretty damn livid about now - how Fing dare they...!!

There would be nothing stopping them taking them out for the holidays, of course. But then what? Go back to school married? What seems to be happening more frequently is that the girls just drop out of school alltogether. Sometimes the authorities don't bother chasing but they're now tightening up so the girls families claim to HE.
The government are now seeking to look behid these claims to protect the girls involved.
I can see how it irritates legitimate HEers but how else can we protect the girls involved? Often there is simply no evidence for the LA to bring proceedings and as it stands they can't investigate just because the girl is HEd.
I can't see a way around it tbh.

Oh and re the asian young women's issue - when I taught in a predominantly bengali environment and many girls indeed did go on an extended holiday in year 10 and just didn't come back - the school shrugged their shoulders because they just didn't have any power to do anything about it. So if schools haven't been able to do anything about it - what do they think bracketing all HErs together is going to acheive?

Will they be targeting Muslim or Sikh HE families specifically or all HErs?

Have we got the wrong end of the stick - is this MP concerned about certain social groups within HErs because of their experience in their constituency or is it a genuine witch hunt?

Jshoes - the LA really do not have the power to investigate as it stands.
If a child is properly dereged and the parents claim HE then the LA can't begin an investigation because the family are from a certain section of the community.

cross posted litchick - I take on board what you are saying - which is why I wonder if some of us have leapt onto the wrong band wagon - unfortunately I don't have the radio on much in the house so I missed the show.

Was it a general HE bashing or specifically targeted>?

To be fair I wasn't referring to the show but to a quote from the government that Callisto posted which, call me naive, I do believe to be a long overdue response to a bnational disgrace.

If there are pre-existing reasons for concern when these girls drop out of school, surely it is up to SS to investigate? And if the LEA have reason to doubt that the girls are getting an appropriate education, then they are entitled to ask the family for details of the education being provided.

I don't see that a blanket authority to "monitor" HE families will improve on this.

If there are reasons for suspecting that the claim to be HEing is false, then there rea legal powers already in place to cover that. Assuming we are all guilty until proved otherwise is not required.

Litchick, if the girls are being sent out of the country to be married then what use is a check on the provision of home education after they have been sent away. They are already gone and it is too late to prevent this happening. The same thing could easily happen over the summer break, or during a family holiday. And it's a welfare concern anyway, which is totally separate to home education and LA's do have processes in place to deal with welfare concerns regardless of where children are educated.

What the government seem to want is to be able to monitor and JUDGE the educational provision of home educating families throughout the time they home educate. That is intrusive. The only way it can avoid being discrimination is if ALL parents are given the same treatment whether the children are home educated, privately educated or state educated. Which, it could be argued, might not be a bad idea because even if you send your child to school you are still ultimately responsible for their education, and so if children are going to school but not coming out having not been educated efficiently (so in the case of state education are coming out without having a broad and balanced education and having functional skills) then their parents are not meeting their responsibilities according to The Law, and so they need to act in these cases as well.