What do I really truly think about schools?

[emmaagain]

In response to a discussion with AbbeyA in another thread, but I can't cope with these Byzantine conversations-go-everywhere thread.

I'll try to be very succinct.

1. Schools are inherently places where people get bullied [it's a feature of closed societies which people have not chosen to enter, like prison. Where outside such societies those who don't fit in with the particular culture can choose to leave it, finding alternative people to mix with, in schools you have to stay in a room with people you dislike day in day out]. If your child is not one of the ones being bullied, you might not notice it, but look around. There is often someone being belittled, whether it is by staff or pupils. Except of course in the perfectly happy skippy schools where it never ever happens (only I'm not sure I believe in them)

1. Schools are inherently and institutionally coercive. The teacher is the authority figure, and right and proper in a room of 30 pupils not all of whom want to do what everyone else wants to do, or even be there. The alternative would be chaos. But I am ideologically opposed to my children spending their days in a dictatorship, however benevolent. (NB I am aware that most will not agree with me about it being wrong to submit children to the dictatorship of adults, at home or at school. I am a libertarian and that's an unusual stance. But I am trying to express my objections to the institution of school and this is a large part of my moral objection)

1. Schools have really weird cultures which don't reflect the world outside at all (asking permission to speak or urinate? Eating on someone else's timetable? Stopping an activity when someone else says it's time to move on rather than because you've finished?)

1. Schools, by definition, cannot enable a child to learn in the most efficient manner, as responsive to their ability and interests. Because there is a national curriculum. Because there are so many children for each adult - there's no way there could be a truly personalised curriculum. Educational professionals do their bets, I know, to respond to the needs of each child, but there's no way they're going to come close to what a parent can do, just by definition.

HC- I love you because you sent me some great stuff for ds1 - and I love you anyway - but I really don't agree with 'shoving them in a special needs unit' That's very loaded language. Ds1's SN school has been a wonderful place for him - he has blossomed and developed in ways that we would never have dared hope for. It doesn't mean I think his school is right for every child, but some SN units can be wondrfully holistic, open minded caring places. I really do object to the use of the word 'shoving'.

Juulie, I don't think that these things are happeneing. At least not in my experience.

fingerprinting link

I know what is happening in my child's school. I am not lying.

Was that to me mmj

www.leavethemkidsalone.com/
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3724951.stm

Yes, to take out library books. Call the anti cops!

Yes, MB so there's certainly going to be a point where HEers NEED to go beyond the expertise of the parent in any subject. I agree with that. It's definitely not a deal breaker for HEers. There's plenty of expertise out there in the community. I'm going to run out of chemistry expertise at some point, but have relatives and friends with chemistry access, and actually I think there's a once-a-week HE chemistry class in my area, which teens can sign up for and do all the potassium in bath stuff. It's all out there and available.

Don't worry about HEers and group work. THere are plenty of opportunities within the HE community and in the wider community (except for those of us who keep our children locked in cupbaords, obviously)

Is this better for you

yes twiglett i can see what you are saying.
ultimately i make the decision about when ds goes to school, which school he goes to or whether he even goes at all. however i will take his feelings and opinions into account.

if (and it's a big if) i home educated him and one day he turned around and said he wanted to go to school then i would let him go. i think children should have a say in major decisions that affect their lives.

young children can't be relied on to make reasoned judgements about everything, but they do have opinions and feelings and i feel it is important to acknowledge them, and take them into consideration.

They will be hard pressed to get the reactive metals.

friends desiderata?

certainly I think many of our most lasting friends are made in childhood.

But not necessarily in school, and it needn't be in school.

There's a huge HE festival each year called HesFes, and I think any of the children who attend that and then spend the rest of the year haring around the country spending time with their friends would laugh at the idea that HE children will end up friendless and isolated.

HE children have the choice of how much time they spend with other children, and with which other children. The ones who want to be norman no mates can be. The ones who want friends have the opportunity to make friends. Freedom of association.

I was also going to say that juuule must be a Daily Mail reader! I don't know where you live but I can't recognise any of it!!!
So tell me emmaagain-if I am your DD and I say I want to go to school-I am desperate to go to school-do you respect my wishes or do you think that I don't know my own mind?
I couldn't wait to go to school (there were no nurseries etc in my day-one day you were at home full time with mother-the next you were at school)I found it all tremendously exciting and stimulating (and before anyone jumps in, my home life was super too). I was also, as I have said on another thread, a very shy little girl ,unsporty and fond of reading.

'reactive metals'.

Yes.

But not insurmountable.

Wouldn't you agree?

For equipment, school is easier. It's all there.

We have another advantage of school, but it's not a deal breaker is it?

Are none of the teachers on here aware of the biometric stuff being introduced into schools? Really?

Yurt, I think you misinterpreted my 'shove'!

I meant that they would have always been 'the dyslexic boys', and that their full potential wouldn't have been encouraged.

I know this because when the EWO came to visit us after we deregistered the children from school, she said that she would HE at secondary level if her children were dyslexic, because it was not the "special need of choice at the moment" , and all the dyslexic children are "shoved" in the unit without proper support.

We are not talking about a wonderful holistic place. We are talking about two classrooms stuck at the back of a huge secondary school, with large upper and lower case letters stuck on the windows.

As I said previously, if I could find a setting that would cater for their needs properly, I'd strongly consider it.

If you are my DD, AbbeyA, and you want to go to school, we will, together, visit all the schools in the district that are affordable and have spaces, and then you will choose the one you want to go to.

If and when you want to come out, I will deregister you.

Do we have a deal?

I am sure you must be a Daily Mail Reader!!

Why? Because I'm aware of and experiencing something you are not?

ah yes I may have misinterpreted HC. DS1's education at mainstream certainly came into some sort of 'shove' category (he learned nothing). Sensitive as there's often some sort of horror expressed about attending SN units/schools when I think they can be wonderful wonderful places. Ds1's is holistic right down to massage

Sorry last post was to juuule.
What do you mean affordable -I am talking about state schools? Deal-I think you will be disappointed on the deregistering though!

That biometric stuff is very - erm- paranoid.....