Autonomous home ed - am I doing this right?

[Lookslikerain]

Background is that DS is 5 and a half, dx with autism at 3, and technically should just have started school (Scotland). He attended an amazing mainstream nursery for 2 years, but school is just the wrong thing for him.

His attention can be awful, especially if he isn't particularly interested. From what I've read, a child-led, autonomous approach is definitely the best fit for him. I'm just concerned that I'm not doing it right, or missing something. I guess the problem is that we're just continuing to do what we've always done day-to-day. He tends to stagnate if we stay in the house too much, so we've always been a busy family both during the week and at weekends (also have DD and baby DS). We do lots of museum visits, parks, library, baking/cooking, playing, meeting friends anyway, and he's always really enjoyed that stuff. And we do all the other stuff like going to the shops, post office, running errands etc. We have also met some other home-edders too, though he was pretty uninterested.

At the moment, he's into bugs and was trying to build a bug house in the garden using an empty box today so tomorrow we're going to the library to look for some books on bugs, and we might try and build a proper, big bug house so we can attract lots of them for watching. But this is something I'd have done anyway, just because he was interested, not something I'm doing because we home ed.

Am I getting this right? I almost feel like it should be more difficult and less fun!

I agree wholeheartedly with Charis. In a school setting children are taught by experts who know their subjects inside out and have all the resources schools have to support them in doing their job. To argue that any HE child has received a better education is a nonsense. They will have gleaned any knowledge they have from reading/independent learning which frankly, other children do at weekends and in their free time. Going shopping, to the library, building bug houses etc etc are all things that most parents do anyway. During school hours they learn so much more.
OP, I am not aware of the depth of your child's autism but have you researched what support would be available to him in a school setting? With a statement it is likely that he would have 1:1 support but still have the benefit of the teaching standards and facilities of a school. With 1:1 support there is huge potential for flexibility in learning methods.
And yes, you have to think about it from the very beginning because while one 5 year old is learning by going to Tescos, many many others are in a classroom learning in far greater depth. Ultimately your child may well be competing with them for courses or jobs.

You don't seem to be able to take on board what I am saying to you.

based on decades of experience in many institutions, and the centuries of combined experience of many other colleagues, based on national statistical analysis of hundreds of thousands of HE and school educated teens, these are the entrance requirements HE children need to be aware of.

What is your problem exactly? You don't want to be aware? You don't want other people to be aware of the pitfalls that have sunk many teenagers hopes? You don't want them to be prepared and for warned to avoid these pitfalls?

What exactly do you want me to say?

o yes, come tto any school you want and do any qualification you fancy for free? No one cares if you pass or fail, no one cares if you are capable or not, endless education is free in this country and the rest of the class really don't care who is admitted, you can have any choice you want?

is that what you want me to say? Because it isn't like that. Sorry to disappoint you.

Some HE children do brilliantly at A levels/ 6th form GCSE course -many don't even get in, because they are not ready when their last chances of state education a running out.

Why would any one pretend otherwise?

Yes. But let's take this back a step. What is the purpose of all this education? To live a life that allows you to get a job that allows you to live life without struggle. So that you can be happy and fulfilled. I think we all want that for our kids. But 'happiness' depends in your perspective. For me, I would like enough money to pay the bills and have some experiences. Whether that be travel, day trips etc.
some people do this on 16k a year. Others can't do this in 60k a year. It depends on priorities. For example, I just want a car that gets me from a to b, is safe and passes the MOT! Dh on the other hand wants a certain model, brand etc. you cut your cloth to your income. Teach a child to do that them they can enable happiness. I don't care what brand my clothes are, they are functional. Do they cover me are they warm are the comfortable? Cool. That'll do! I would never spend £60 on a shirt because it has a certain label. So I dk t need an income that enaes me to but a £60 shirt. So I am just as happy as someone who does.
I am totally rubbish with explaining what I mean(possibly on the spectrum myself!! Haha!! We always said ds got it from me!) but hopefully you can get where I am coming from.

One would hope so, but if the system at your institution is as you describe, then you won't be able to make that judgement soundly. as I said, we tend to err on the side of leniency, but we pay heavily for it.

Thankfully there are at least six London colleges with a better approach

no, sorry, quite categorically no.

I want you to stop the doom-laden scaremongering Charis. (You won't, of course.)

Reekypear: Utter crap being talked here,

I know masses of he kids who have taken gcse early and have been accepted into college for a levels no issue.

I know kids who have got onto level 3 courses with zero, zero gcses.

Are you talking about students who have taken one exam per year over a number of years, or students who have taken a few one year and a few the next?

There's already a problem with pupils taking GCSE Maths a year early, even getting an A*, then having a year with no maths and wanting to take the A level, only to find the teacher isn't keen, because their skills have dropped during that year. If someone took a GCSE aged 12 and then wanted to take the A level aged 16, it's inevitable there might be problems.

As for the students who got onto level 3 courses without GCSEs, do you mean they first took level 2 and then moved onto level 3? GCSE is a level 2 qualification and if someone had no level 2 qualification I don't know any college that would allow them to take level 3. Maybe if they were mature students with a lot of work experience, it might happen, but why would a teacher allow someone with no proven ability at all to take a level 3 course?

what rubbish, there is no doom laden scaremongering. I am providing information because I have seen the terrible consequences of parents of home educated kids not having that information.

Norman, do you really think she's scaremongering? She is experienced in further education. I am experienced in further education and agree with her. On what grounds do you think she's scaremongering?

It's interesting. Several of us (3 or 4?) are personally aware of multiple individual cases of these more flexible Level 3 and A level admissions for HEed teens, yet you are determined to tell us that we're somehow mistaken

My point being, and going back to my list in which uni to go to, is that asong ad that a is avheivef then we have done our job. I know many uni educated people who are stuck without that having spent years at an expensive uni while others who didn't go that route are out earning them because they got into the workforce earlier. And the working ones are a lot happier than the ones out of uni who are filled with angst that they can now not walk into a £30k job as they were promised would happen as soon as they graduated.

So charis and imperial, what do with do with the kids who don't fit into a traditional school? (Genuinely interested btw) is it a case of making sure they take the six igcse over two years to enable them to get to an a level course? What if munched won't cope with an a level institution? ( I don't know the British system at all) what are our options?

Munched? My child!

Norman, we take a certain number of HE teens who fulfill the entry requirements. We occasionally take a tiny number who don't quite - we are probably the most flexible school in London, and people come to us for miles, because none of their local schools will take them.

It does occasionally work out to bend the entry requirements . it mostly doesn't.

No, I think you have been misinformed, or are mistaken. or are talking about private ed, you can pay for more or less anything your self, if you have tens of thousands.

And it is not that hey can't cope with the work, it is the social stuff, sensory stuff.

And no we can't get a statement /:EHC because schools lie and minimise. Which is what led us to HE in the first place as he was being mentally traumatised.

As for the students who got onto level 3 courses without GCSEs, do you mean they first took level 2 and then moved onto level 3? GCSE is a level 2 qualification and if someone had no level 2 qualification I don't know any college that would allow them to take level 3. Maybe if they were mature students with a lot of work experience, it might happen, but why would a teacher allow someone with no proven ability at all to take a level 3 course?

It's NOT a case of no-proven-ability-at-all, it's just usually not five-GCSEs-in-one-sitting.

I know of different mixtures of qualifications and portfolios, including IGCSEs, AS-levels, vocational certs, Uni modules, references from non-qualification courses, folders of essays and criticism, art portfolios etc etc. In different combinations.

I also know students who applied for Level 2 courses and were offered Level 3 at interview.

I don't think anyone would promise someone a £30K job as soon as they graduate, GarlicDough!

NormanLamont, once a college starts to become flexible re admissions, where does it stop? I've had plenty of students wanting to study A levels but who haven't had enough GCSEs to qualify for entry - on what grounds should they be accepted, in your opinion? I know that even if they got the A levels, they would struggle to get into university as they would have to have five GCSEs including English and Maths to get onto a course. If I let them onto my A level courses without those GCSEs, I would be doing them a disservice.

Also, realistically, how is testing to take place? The whole point of exams is that colleges don't have to test students themselves. We would have to test so many skills and frankly there just isn't the time to do that. An interview just wouldn't show us enough. An example of work wouldn't be enough. The student would end up having to sit a timed paper that was very similar to the GCSE and the teacher would have to mark it - do you really expect that to happen in each subject for each HE student?

Schools are usually very keen to get statements for pupils who need them. They receive additional funding to support such students. I can't think of a single situation where a school would "lie and minimise" in order to prevent a child who needed a statement getting one.

I speak as a teacher, a governor and a parent.

garlic, its up to you, we are talking about people who want their children to do A levels then go to university. It isn't for everybody. There are other levels of courses in the sixthform. We have A levels, GCSE, Btec level 3, 2 or 1, we have entry level qualifications, we have courses that are on a level of a primary school, ( appropriate for some) we have anything going down to "towards independence" in which students learn to use a washing machine and pay bus fare.

The people I am specifically adressing are those who hE their children to a certain point, then want them to do A levels, or sixth form GCSE retakes, and realise too late that their child doesn't qualify for those courses.

I know kids who have got onto level 3 courses with zero, zero gcses. it doesn't have to be GCSEs, it does have to be GCSE equivalents. Lots of students come from countries where GCSEs are not offered.

I know of different mixtures of qualifications and portfolios, including IGCSEs, AS-levels, vocational certs, Uni modules, references from non-qualification courses, folders of essays and criticism, art portfolios etc etc. In different combinations.

all of which will be formally converted into dated GCSE equivalents.

Singsongsung. Perhaps pop over to the sn boards and you will see countless examples of lying and minimising. For us, it was a head teacher saying out child did not have autism..despite an nhs dx!

Thank you charis.

I also know students who applied for Level 2 courses and were offered Level 3 at interview yes, I have also done that, what is your point?

Then I would seek out a different school

So charis and imperial, what do with do with the kids who don't fit into a traditional school? (Genuinely interested btw) is it a case of making sure they take the six igcse over two years to enable them to get to an a level course? What if munched won't cope with an a level institution? ( I don't know the British system at all) what are our options?

Any child who doesn't get five GCSEs including Maths and English is going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to getting a job, so to that extent I think you have to consider how they will do that. If they wouldn't cope with an A level institution you'd have to consider why not - they are usually friendly places which treat the students like young adults. There is plenty of scope for talking to teachers outside class and for extra study. There are librarians and teachers who can help with study skills. It would be expected, though, generally, that the five hours per subject at A level would be the major contact a student has with the teacher, simply because the teacher usually teaches 25 hours per week and spends a lot of time marking and preparing work, as well as carrying out all the admin and attending meetings. A student who expects a lot of help outside of that teaching time would be seen as not coping with the requirements of the course, though of course it's inevitable that many students will need a bit of extra help at some point or other.

NormanLamont, once a college starts to become flexible re admissions, where does it stop? I've had plenty of students wanting to study A levels but who haven't had enough GCSEs to qualify for entry - on what grounds should they be accepted, in your opinion? I know that even if they got the A levels, they would struggle to get into university as they would have to have five GCSEs including English and Maths to get onto a course. If I let them onto my A level courses without those GCSEs, I would be doing them a disservice.

Being flexible in the evidence of potential that one will accept is not synonymous with lowering the bar Imperial.

And some FE colleges do routinely test all applicants for Maths and English ability now, irrespective of qualifications held. So in some institutions, that already happens.