Many parents don't know that elective home education is legal and successful as an alternative to school education.

[julienoshoes]

www.yorksj.ac.uk/news---events/news---events-home/news/children-dont-have-to-go-to-s.aspx

"It is a scandal that parents and children can suffer so much trauma from problems with schools and do not know there is a valid, successful alternative. Too often schools fail parents and children and one solution may be home education. It is a controversial inadequacy and loss that the government do not actively educate the country's parents about alternative educational options such as home education. State information about education keeps most parents in the dark about such options. The parents I spoke to didn't like that. We need more information in the public domain rather than relying on word of mouth. A variety of educational pathways is the right of all, not just a privileged few."

LEAs want schools full. They have to employ teachers so it makes sense to employ one for 30 children and not 15 because it costs the same. Schools get money per pupil. Schools are doing the hard sell, they want their school full and as much money as possible, they do not want to lose them to other schools, the private sector or home!
The dentist is quite different, if you have a bad one who just lets teeth rot people will vote with their feet and find one who is good and does preventative work.
Of course fire fighters and the police are not doing themselves out of a job- their job is to prevent fires and crime!
The LEA is providing education I can't see why they have a duty to tell people alternatives. I really don't think that parents should HE if they have to be spoonfed easily available information. Education is going to be limited if they stick to what the know exists, maybe their children will want to study something they don't know exists and how will they find it?
The Queen was educated at home, do people think it was illegal? My mother was HEed in 1930s. If you google 'is HE legal' it comes up, if you google 'when did HE become illegal?' ( if you think it did)it comes up.
It seems utterly pathetic to be unhappy with school, not do any searches and then moan 'well I would have done it if anyone had told me I could'!
If OP really wants to spread the word then why post on HE where people must know it exists to read it?!
If you want to find out about alternative medicine don't ask the medical profession, if you want to find out about alternative education don't ask educational professionals, half of them won't agree with it anyway! ( you can't know which half in either!) Much better to find someone knowledgeable about the alternatives.

But many schools are telling children they have to go to school, these are the people educating the children, the teachers do not know, they are not willing to find out, what else don't they know? Who else are they imparting the wroung information to children.
Schools should no the law regarding education and as a place of education
they should be relied open to give the correct answer to a question.
If the schools cannot be relied apron to tell the children they are educating the truth how the hell is that educating.

And parents should have some initiative to look up home education
I'd hope someone who thinks they can home ed has ability and savvy to look up facts
This isn't institutions misleading poor parents,the info is out there and accessible

Those letters that are sent out telling parents that they have to apply for school places really don't help as they reinforce the belief that school is the only way

And you meekly accept it without questioning it? .And these people want to HE? I got my DCs to question everything, including me. How are you going to get yours to do that if you don't do it yourselves?

This isn't institutions misleading poor parents,the info is out there and accessible

Exactly-easily accessible. Google just about any question you like and it comes up. If you take the letter and google 'do I have to apply for a school place for my 5 year old' you get CAB, among others who will explain HE.

If I was a teacher I don't know why I should bother telling anyone about HE, unless they specifically ask.

I also expect that when the person in the link asked people if they knew they just said 'no' because it wasn't anything that they were remotely interested in. Most parents would react with absolute horror if they were expected to HE!! It is laughable that anyone thinks that if they were told they would be doing it in droves! Read much of MN and you soon see that the majority want longer school days and shorter holidays!

SatinSandals did you read the article linked to? It is a report of a research paper where the researcher found many parents did not know about HE and were consistently being misinformed or actively discouraged from it even when their children were having a lot of trouble with school.
So I'm not sure why most of this thread is people saying this is not a problem based on their own anecdotal experience when the research shows that it is.
If you really want to find out what most people think about home ed, then home educate your child and take them out with you every day. Not once has someone said to me 'oh, he's home educated then?'. They say 'isn't it illegal?' Or 'are you a teacher?', or 'I never knew you could do that'. If that indicates to you that no awareness raising would be valuable then that's up to you but I'm not really sure what your agenda is and why it seems so important to you that parents are not empowered to make choices.
Of course you can google things but if your school, the children's centre, your head teacher, your doctor and your health visitor have all told you for sure it is illegal (and all of these people do sometimes say this), then you may believe them.

Of course I read the article, it was the thread is about!
I just find it strange that I haven't come across anyone who doesn't know that you can HE. If you phrased the question differently you would get a different answer. She had an agenda before she started.
Regardless of anything else, if a parent just takes what they are told as the truth and doesn't bother to investigate and find out information that is readily available I would question whether they were fit to HE.
A doctor doesn't tell you to seek alternatives when you turn up at the surgery or A & E, the travel agent doesn't say 'do you realise that you can book independently?' when you go to book a holiday. When you go to the solicitor to make your will they don't tell you that you can get a cheap will writer or a form, when you see the vicar to plan a christening they don't tell you that you can find a humanist and have a naming ceremony- I could go on and on so I really don't see that when you apply to a school they should say 'do you realise you can educate at home'. They would assume that if you are applying you actually want a place.
I wouldn't rely on a HV for anything- some of them have the most peculiar advice!
If people say 'is it legal',or 'are you a teacher' it means that they wouldn't dream of HE and have never given it any thought. I bet you haven't converted a single one, their mind is made up whatever you say. Have you had a single one, when you have said 'yes it is legal' and 'no you don't have to be a teacher,' moan they didn't know and they want to do it? I suspect they still have no intention of changing from school.

If people want to have a home birth they investigate it and find out their rights. I didn't want a home birth so it would be quite natural for me to say 'are you allowed to do that', it doesn't mean that I am ignorant, merely that it hasn't been something I have bothered to find out about.

"So just a regular maw then"

Sorry Starlight, I did laugh at Scottishmummy's response. Though it does sound lovely (if not for me), a life of such self sufficiency.

I love the fact that on MN if you disagree someone always comes along and says 'have you read the post'!

I have only read the first page of messages and to be honest the negativity of some people who dominate the HE section is astounding. If you don't HE or aren't considering it, why are you here?
If I'm not trying to conceive a child i don't linger on the conception forums and fish out unwanted advice.

And just to give my two cents re the awareness of HE, it isn't very well promoted. Granted the links on certain websites are there, but most people don't happen to be lurking about on the Gov website. Not all people want to HE, either because they consider the school system the best route or finances dictate. However, that doesn't mean HE should remain in the shadows.

Its a shame that the HE section on mumsnet is being ruined by a few.

After the favourite of 'have you read OP' someone gets to why are you on here! It is a public board. I never go on HE and seek it out. I found this on 'unanswered questions' and found it interesting. There are masses of topics that I find interesting without having to be actively doing them. People would be very boring if they took no interest in anything except topics that actively involved them.
OP put it on HE, where people are already aware, presumably so that everyone could say 'oh yes what a scandal no one knows', she didn't put it on education where it might possibly come as news to people.
The researcher had an agenda. There is that wonderful sketch on 'Yes Prime Minister' where Sir Humphrey explains surveys to Jim Hacker. He asks him a series of questions and Jim answers them and then he very, very, slightly alters the slant and Jim answers them and comes out the opposite! I could ask people the same question and come out differently.
I can understand that HEers get fed up of the totally predictable questions they face on a weekly basis of 'is it legal?', 'are you a teacher?', 'what about socialisation?' etc etc BUT do they seriously imagine that the vast majority are going to say 'how wonderful! Now I know I shall do it!'? The vast majority wouldn't do it if the won a fortune on the lottery! They are far more likely to switch to private education.
If they are interested it is so simple to find out, the information is freely available and if the parent has to be spoonfed it, should they be HEing?
I would be pretty irritated to apply for a school place to be told, 'did you realise that you don't have to apply, you don't have to send them to school'. I am reasonably intelligent, I have done my homework on where I want them to go and what type of education and school and I wouldn't be applying if I didn't want the place! I have put just as much thought into it as the HEer, I think it patronising to think that I am doing it because I think that I have to and blindly follow 'orders' without question.
At least assume that parents are intelligent, unless proved differently, and then handle with tact!

It isn't being 'ruined' , it is an interesting debate. It is only 'ruined' if you only tolerate one view and want to silence the rest.

It also isn't in the shadows, although I agree it might have been in the past. GOV UK give it prominent position as a way of education and so do CAB.

And for those who have never 'lurked' on GOV UK , I suggest that you do; it tells you about working, jobs, pensions, self employment, student finances , how to apply for disabled badges and just about anything. The CAB will also answer any question. They have never let me down.

I read any post that crops up in Active Convos.

I too have never met anyone who does not know that you can HE. I have sen numerous threads in other sections of MN where HE is mentioned as one of the several educational choices available (look at school admissions threads for examples). And, thinking about school admissions, the point about LEAs wanting children in schools strikes me as a complete nonsense in vast swathes of the country where there are insufficient places already and more years of increased pupil numbers to come. I would have expected (overstretched) LEAs to be very happy if the numbers they had to find places for were not inexorably rising

I am glad that it isn't just me. I never go into a topic. I log on, look at threads that I am on, which is why I post so much on one thing because I keep on until it dies or I get bored. I then go to either 'active discussions' or 'last 15 mins' and if there is nothing that catches my interest I go to 'unanswered questions' and then I log out.
You do have to allow for the fact that not everyone uses the site in the same way, or for the same reasons as you.

Schools like being over subscribed, the real killer is being the unpopular school with places.

"And, thinking about school admissions, the point about LEAs wanting children in schools strikes me as a complete nonsense in vast swathes of the country where there are insufficient places already and more years of increased pupil numbers to come. I would have expected (overstretched) LEAs to be very happy if the numbers they had to find places for were not inexorably rising"

Exactly. You would expect that, wouldn't you? So would I. It is a nonsense for them to push all parents towards schools, but they do. That is why I've said that in promoting school-based education over home education they are wasting scarce resources and not doing their job correctly.

MY LA has finally altered its website to be somewhat less biased and offensive. Until recently, the first line on their webpage about home education, was "X Local Authority believes in the value of school-based education". They then went on at some length about the benefits of school before grudgingly acknowledging that if parents were really determined to HE, the LA could not legally stop them. The same quote was included in the information pack they sent to new home educating families.

They might as well have a page about cycling in which they advocate driving a car. That would be equally ludicrous in view of how bad traffic is getting and how much more it costs taxpayers to maintain roads which are being used by large vehicles rather than bikes.

At least we all seem to be in agreement that HE gets a mention everywhere and therefore there is even less need for parents to be in ignorance.
Putting OP in the education section would spread the word even more, rather than putting it in the one place that you can rely on people to know!
If you want to get people out of cars and onto bikes you put it where car drivers will read it, you don't waste time telling cyclists!

It isn't clear that the OP's intention in this particular thread was to tell people about home education. I had assumed she'd posted in order to alert fellow home educators to the fact that a researcher is saying many people do not know they can home educate and that some of them wish they had been given this information earlier. Presumably we might then go on to take some action such as spreading the word about home education or putting pressure on LAs to do so, for instance.

Would you have found it odd if someone had posted a link on a cycling forum to an article saying that many people mistakenly believe cycling is not a realistic option for them, and that they wish they had been given better information about cycling? Such a discussion would not necessarily be aimed at car drivers, but more likely at the other cycling activists who might wish to do something about the situation if they agree that it is unacceptable.

You may be right, but the post may well still be in 'unanswered questions' if I hadn't picked it up and I am the only one keeping it going! There isn't much to say other than 'yes, what a scandal' because I would assume that HEers are already putting people right on it and from what you are saying putting pressure on LEAs to put the record straight.

We appear to be guessing at what LEAs want, since I don't work for one and don't know anyone who does I can't say what their policy is except that they were lamenting about the falling birth rate a few years ago so they are probably pleased to have a bulge.

I do know it all comes down to money. I haven't spent much time researching it but in 2009/2010 average funding for a primary school pupil in England was £1100 per term and it can only have gone up. Secondary pupils is always more. Therefore if a family with 3 children in a primary school decide to withdraw them and HE the school loses nearly £10000 a year and yet they still need the same number of teachers, TAs and resources. Of course they don't want to lose them! Schools struggle for cash they want classes full. Schools do a really hard sell, they want to be chosen, they do not want to lose pupils to other schools, the private sector or HE. They stress the reasons why parents should chose them, they don't go around telling them they would be better off elsewhere. (this is why Heads are not keen on flexi pupils, they don't want resources taken up without the full £3,300)

My guess is that if LEAs start treating it like a very viable choice and telling every potential parent 'have you thought about doing it yourselves?' they will want more control. I am not saying that it is right or wrong, just that it is highly likely. That will be a more important battle than people saying 'is it legal' when they are not much bothered, have never thought of doing it and have no intention of ever doing it.

I think that Home educating is a unique subject when it comes to making it general knowledge.

Most people went to school and spent a lot of time wishing they didn't have to. Their parents kept telling them 'how privilleged they were to go' or went down the line of 'It's the law' or 'the truant officers will be around if you don't go'. (I had all of these and I liked school/found it easy). - so I think there is an element of jealousy going on. There are the thoughts of, "Well, I had to suffer all those years so you shouldn't be allowed such a lovely life."

Most people like to follow the rules and not make waves. Most people are not taught to question the education system, after all they spent all their youth in a school that was working hard to get them to accept everything the school did or said. Everytime they bucked the system at school they got into trouble and this was usually backed up by their dutiful parents scolding them about being bad at school.

A case to illustrate the above. My ds primary school began to outlaw certain playground games every time one particualr child said they were being left out of a game. There must have been some bullying going on around this child I guess. So the children had a long list of games they could not play including 'It' (in all it's versions). The children kept complaining to me about this so I suggested they start a petition and get everone to sign it. The children, as one unit, shook there heads and said, "No! The teachers would be cross with them for arguing against the rules."

Is it any wonder that the populace don't even consider that there is an alternative?

Most schools have a school council where those topics would be raised and discussed. Most teachers will be teaching children to question things-it is a huge part of education.

I have met people who didn't know H.ed was legal and presumed that H.ed resources available on internet were for use alongside school attendance.
Yes, children are told they have to go to school, some of my dds friends thought she was naughty and i'd be in trouble, etc.
I also think there are lots of misconceptions too. Only the other day a nursery nurse trained and qualified to work with dc up to age 8 didn't understand the concept and thought we were given work that had to be handed in and marked. By whom, I have no idea.
I have also been asked where she will do SATS, if she has to go in just for tests, etc.
Its not enough to just say its an option, parents need to be aware that it is an efficient and effective form of education.

I don't think that parents ask the right questions, full stop. They never appear to ask about collective worship, how they help children make friends, whether they have a school council etc etc etc
They also don't know the channels if they are unhappy, e.g getting the children to start a petition was quite rightly rejected by the children and wasn't a sensible solution, but I assume that she didn't have a more sensible way.
I also think you have to be realistic. My mother lives in a village with very few children, when she moved in people were thrilled because they saw me and my 2yr old and thought it was us. A school like that struggles with numbers. If a resident wants a place for their 5 yr old the Head will jump at it, you can't blame them for not saying 'do you realise that you do not have to send them to school?' because if they decided to HE that school would not have the over £20,000 worth of funding that they get over the 6/7 years in a Primary school. They need numbers. Much easier to assume that if a parent was interested in HE they would have investigated before applying.