HE: Oxbridge and other Unis

[Crummymum]

Hello,

I'm looking to home ed my DS at secondary level (in a year's time). I'm just starting to investigate the ins and outs of this, but I was talking with an Oxford-educated friend of mine about this and he said that Oxbridge don't like home educated children and usually won't take them. Is this true? And what is their rationale? My DC may not want to study there when they reach that stage, but I wouldn't like to think I'd reduced their options.

Also, how do universities in general feel about exams being taken 1,2,3 at a time, rather than 9 or so GCSE's or 3 A'levels all being taken in one year?

Any advice would be really appreciated

You don't have to follow any programme until the children want to, in my experience.

I know your experience is different to that Seeker, you have said so before. But it's not something I recognise from all the people I know.

There is a very good group linked to on the 'Websites on home education' thread, for HE families interested in taking exams, for those who do want to plan ahead, or those that have reached the stage when their children have decided to take a more formal path and want advice.

It really doesn't matter how you choose to educate , formally, child led, whatever- you should end up with an educated, motivated DC who has the ability to choose their path in life, be it university, apprenticeship, whatever- find out the entry point and get the necessary qualifications.

I retract the word "programme". I used it because it was the least dogmatic word I could think of. I offer the word "lifestyle". or maybe just "life". The fact remains that people need bits of paper.

Sorry, I retract that. People might need bits of paper- and you don't know until possibly too late whether you will or not. So better to get them if you can when your peers do. Because, sadly, you might end up competing with those that do.

Especially into today's job market. I is all very different from the way it was 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago. I know this for a fact because I have one who graduated 10 years ago and one who graduated this year. Of course you wil get the odd person who makes it, but why handicap your DC? Why not just get the piece of paper that ensures that all doors are open?
I know so many people who are handicapped in later life by lack of the right qualifications, they were not HEed, they just had poor advice or didn't work when they should have done. They either have to settle for less or they have the financial upheaval of getting them later in life.

Interesting reading. I had no idea not doing the exams all in one sitting might be detrimental.

My children are doing IGCSE (then to college for, all but one, A' Level), they're sitting some in the spring, then more in the autumn, then the rest in summer of the following year, at 16 years. Financial factors weren't a consideration, I would stress. It just seemed to suit us to arrange them this way.

I am an Oxbridge tutor, and I must say that I never see exams at different dates in a bad light. My ds did 3 early GCSes and then 9 more... think this is quite normal if kids are ready early, as ds was, and done often in the indy sector, at e.g. Manchester Grammar. IMHO it's less important than readiness. Readiness is all.

"So better to get them if you can when your peers do."

here is somewhere we will have to fundamentally disagree Seeker.
IME it's much better to do an exam when you are ready/interested/motivated, than just because it's when everyone else does.

You don't have to run your life on somebody else's timetable.

"You don't have to run your life on somebody else's timetable."

Actually, sometimes, and with some things, you do. And the bugger of it is that sometimes you don't realise until it's too late. Or until it' not too late, but it really makes your life difficult and unhappy.

I don't believe in shutting doors for children. And not having at least very basic qualifications will slam some doors and lock them before they even realise they want to go through them.

I tend to agree with Julie, Seeker. If a young person is happy and is achieving what they want to, then they are doing OK. If they then decide to change track (as many adults do), they are starting from a different position and can find that there are different ways to achieve what they now want to do.

I have been an associate lecturer for the OU for 13 years and most of my students are people who have decided to change course. They may have been to university at an earlier age; of those who have not, many feel that the school system failed them by forcing them onto a timetable that was incorrect for them.

As someone from a working-class background who was the first in my family to go to university, I home educated from the beginning to give my DC the opportunity to access a much wider range of activities and not have them pigeon-holed at a young age. My DD went to university at 18. My DS hopes to enter at 19. Neither is "wrong" just different. If he is not offered a place for next year, he may be even older. The extra years will not be "wasted" in his opinion (or mine).

As an OU lecturer you seethose who don't fit the system.

I think Seeker makes a valuable point. Some things in life that are ultimately rewarding are also difficult and boring and restrictive of your autonomy during parts of the process, and I wish I'd appreciated that more when younger.

Narked, I think that was my point - the system does not fit all and it is often not helpful to suggest that it is the person who is wrong. Home-educated DC often have a more relaxed attitude to what they should be doing and are less constrained in how they consider the future. Not being told (however subtly) that one is an academic failure as a child/young person makes a huge difference to how one approaches learning as an adult.

MulledWine, autonomous home education does not necessarily mean that you avoid that lesson, just that is not imposed arbitrarily. For example, a DC who wants to be in an orchestra will autonomously choose to do the less fun bits of practice, knowing that it is necessary to achieve the DC's goal. As the HEing parent, I do not have to invent boring tasks (such as, IMO, GCSE ICT spread over two years).

Was that aimed at me, Seeker? I'm not sure why as I thought it was a reasonable discussion.

What I should have said is that you see the downside - those for whom the system hasn't worked. You don't get to see much of the upside. And there is an upside.

I think that it's worth noting that a lot of people on here are talking about home ed and then college for sixth form. It's worth remembering that home ed might be right for them now, but that in two or four years time it might be right for them to go back into the system. Stay flexible.

As for GCSEs, it must be a hell of a lot faster to teach (and learn) when you don't have 29 other DC asking questions and needing the teacher to go over things again for them. I don't think you'd need to spend the same number of hours doing it at home as you would at school - it can be a much more efficient way to learn.

IME it's much better to do an exam when you are ready/interested/motivated, than just because it's when everyone else does

That may well be true, but financially and responsibility wise it is much more sensible to do it when everyone else does. My father did his late-it wasn't easy when he had a day job, had to work in the evenings and had 2 small children. He got exactly where he wanted in the end-but he would have been much better off doing it when everyone else did. My mother was always held back because she didn't get the right bit of paper-and she never did get it.

If you are going to run it on your own timetable I should get all the facts first-you may be well be sensible to run it in someone else's-at least it holds the doors open if you want them later.
I know countless people who have had hard slog and sacrifice doing it in mid life. When you are young and supported by your parents, without dependants, is much the best option and I would definitely try and get them to see it.

and I have now seen countless people do it, successfully on their own timetable...sometimes before others and sometimes later.

"I would definitely try and get them to see it"
Okay. I get that you would.

It's not my way...but hey that's okay too.

Probably why I home educated so happily
;)

Maybe you don't worry about the money aspect-it is the thing that would worry me and the issue of doing it when young-not with a partner and children. Some people want to but simply can't.

The money aspect definitely worries most home educators, IME. It is expensive and difficult to do GCSEs outside the school system. That is why many go into college at 16 and do GCSEs and A-levels there, a year or so behind their school peers. Until September 2013, college cannot easily be accessed for free by under 16s. (And I'm reserving judgement on how easy it will be then.)

My father did his late-it wasn't easy when he had a day job, had to work in the evenings and had 2 small children. He got exactly where he wanted in the end-but he would have been much better off doing it when everyone else did.

I'm guessing that he was not forcibly prevented by an irresponsible and shortsighted HEing parent, LOL. So it can be done, whatever has caused the delay. I think most of us would agree that it is easier to study without family responsibilities. IMO, that does not necessarily mean doing 9 GCSEs at 16, 4 A-levels at 18 and a degree at 21/22. As HEers, we are saying that there are other (not necessarily more difficult) ways of getting to the same end point.

It is certainly more efficient in time for a motivated young person to do GCSEs from home. That still does not mean that they want or need to do 9 - many colleges only want 5 to admit for A levels (and there are many validated stories where less than 5 have been accepted, unlike the "entry to uni with no formal qualifications" stories). If you only need 5 GCSEs, then many people will only do 5 GCSEs so that the rest of the time is spent doing other things that they would rather do.

Some of Julie's DCs are doing things on a very different schedule from what typical DC would have done at school. But had it been left up to school, Julie's DCs would have no qualifications or any chance of them. You may think that the average DC can do things just like in school but unless you are supporting our DC, you are not really in a position to say that we are spoiling their life chances. My DC are happy to have been involved in the decisions about their education all the way along. My DS is now having his choices constrained because he decided to do A levels at college - he had the option of doing them from home.

All I am saying is that they need the facts. It would make sense to me to go to college and get them for free at 16-it isn't school.
I would definitely encourage them to get them at the right time. My father wasn't HEed, but he didn't get it at the right time. Had we not been able to live with my Grandfather he couldn't have fulfilled his later ambitions and as it was he had to do it all with a full time job. It must have been stressful in the extreme. It is all very well saying 'do it on your own timetable' if you have pots of money-most people don't and need to get on and do it to someone else's timetable.

I forgot to say-my father couldn't do his first choice-the doors were closed-it had to be second choice.

Not aimed at anyone in particular, SDeuchars- just at the general attitude among mumsnet HEers that therenis non space for suggesting that th is even the possibility of even a tiny glimmer of q downside to any aspect of HE.

And on a personal level that my knowledge and experience counts for nothing and is either completely ignored or negated. But I do realise that's my problem!

"if you have pots of money"

Ha! I gave up a career to do this. My dh has been retired on the grounds of ill health for more years than I care to remember. We have done this on next to no money. My children have a very healthy respect for money-but have been in all along on the choices we have made and fully support them.
I know hundreds of home educating families now. I know one HE family that has pots of money.

Seeker-I hear what you have been saying, I know it is your reality, but can't agree with it-it simply is not my experience or that of others that I know. So I don't know what you want me or others whose experience is like mine to say?

I have parented a child who has gone right the way through school as well, I know the ups and downs of that.... and for us there is no downside on any aspect of HE