The one thing that saddens me most...

[Colleger]

Is when my friends say they couldn't bare having the kids around them all day.

I don't deny that my boys can do my head in at times but what I do know is that I'm less patient and loving with them whenever they've not been around for a while and they come back. My friends talk as if they shouldn't have their kids at home, that they should give birth and then send them away for over half of their waking day once they hit four, or sometimes before. Yes, some parents have no choice but to say they can't bare it and it would drive them nuts to have them at home just seems so wrong. :(

In just over 100 years we have taught parents that we shouldn't tolerate our children being around us for more than a few waking hours each day. :(

[exoticfruits]

Plus the fact that you can volunteer to go into their class and help if you really can't manage without them!

[crackcrackcrak]

I can see your point in a way. Before I went on mat leave I rushed dd around all the time and found things quite a battle. Now life has slowed down nothing geeks so constrained and intensive and I am enjoying having dd1 with me all the time to the point where I'm actually less Knackered and obviously be ause of that, dd is loads calmer and less of a handful.
He isn't a question for me I can't afford it I'm a lp plus I have career needs but I can see the ops point about coping when childcare options are removed. Dd goes to nursery and contact and every time I think meh, I could do x y z easily enough with dd here - I don't need help

[mummytime]

Colleger some people start to have this kind of attitude well before kids start school. My eldest sone went to Nursery for 2 mornings a week from the age of 2, because I thought it would be good for him (and actually think it was). I was amazed when some of the Mums who had their kids in the Nursery full-time, 8-6, talked about their holidays. They went to Mark Warner and had their kids cared for their by the Nannies. It just seemed as if they never spent any time with their kids.

But a HE friend talked about how well her kids got on because she HEd; well I think my kids get on just as well despite going to school. But I think it is because if you HE you do have to give them a bit of benign neglect, and be tough on squabbling. I do this anyway.

I also love school holidays.

[lljkk]

100 years ago most children from the age of 4-5 were turfed out at 8am & barely came home until it was tea time. Parents don't have that option now.

What support network do you have, Colleger, and how many DC how old to look after?

Do any of these apply in your life:

• All household adults go out to work or attend other regular activities without taking the children along
  
  
• Relatives have the children around for meals & sleepovers without you.
  
  
• One parent willing to give other parent sizeable & predictable (3-6 hours) chunks of time away from all DC at least a few times a month.
  
  
• Your DC get along with each other quite well
  
  
• It's easy to find a cheap babysitter for your children
  
  None of those apply to me, or at least, could possibly apply without kids in school. So I would be one to say I couldn't bear to have kids around all day.
  
  Aunt was in similar situation to me but HE'd anyway, until youngest was 9-10(?) when she started to Flexischool. Husband worked long hours. Aunt has aged enormously & is very lonely to boot, reckons family grapevine.

[merlottits]

Children have different personalities too.
2/3 of my children I could never HE. One of my children I could have around all day no problem.
I'm quite antisocial though. I don't really like being around ANYONE all the time.

[mummytime]

lljkk and merlottits if you are so anti HE what are you doing on the HE thread?

I find it sad that you don't like having your kids around, and maybe if you did a bit more they might get on better with each other?

As kids get older they need less constant babysitting. lljkk most of the items on your list could be answered as no by most of my HE friends. However I guess as they have other HE friends they do have some chance to share child care/have some time away from their kids.

Gossip about HE usually has: the parents lonely or a bit weird; the children anti-social or behind or too academic or too busy with some music or sport. I know wonderfully balanced and perfectly social, and academically accomplished young people who were home schooled, similarly others who went to a wide variety of schools.

[lljkk]

I'm only anti-HE for me. I'm sure it works well for (?some) others.
Nearly all the HErs I know, both parents go out to work or have lots of child-free time in other ways. Even if it means long hours at work. That's how I derived that list, it's what I see that nearly all my HE-ing friends & relatives have that I lack (obviously lots of school-ed parents have those things, too). I can see that's how they make it work for them, get a decent HE-life balance in spite of the child-care aspect of school-ed.

I've said on other threads, I strongly suspect that sibling rivalry would be a curious oddity that only affected other families if I didn't have DC3. Like Merlottits said, personality comes into these decisions.

[throckenholt]

I HE (well I share it with my DH - both work part time out of the house). I can honestly say that when they were little (4-5) I needed to have them go to school to get a break (3 very close in age). Now 5 or so years further on - (have been HE for 2-3 years) I can honestly say it isn't an issue.

So I think I am saying, for me, that it is far easier to do with older kids - and littles are just very very tiring and I personally needed the down time. Now they are older it is much easier to get your own space, even in the same house.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Hello all.

Well H.ed certainly works for us, I just wish we had done it from the start with all of them. I think its a far better option than attending school but I know thats just my opinion.
We don't have those things on your list neither lljkk and I don't see your point there really.

Mummytime Ha Ha at your gossip. I know some parents of dds friends think I'm the mad pushy parent who will stop at nothing where her music is concerned. They don't see how obsessed she is and the determination she has to reach her goals.

Tonight we will be asked so many questions off parents at her musical activities, but I don't mind as many are just interested and I laugh at their presumptions. The best is permission off school, LEA. Work sent home from school (what school, I have no idea). Teaching qualification required, and you teach dc lessons, like school. Operate the same system, curriculum, and teach from 9 - 3 pm

Well have to go as 4 hours of music activities start soon, lol. I'm so mad/crazy

[seeker]

Change your friends.

[exoticfruits]

Parenting would be lovely and simple if you just had to love having your DCs with you all the time and it somehow proved that you were a good mother. The important thing is to be honest - do it if it suits you, don't if it doesn't- but there is no need to be saddened by either side. It is all down to personality of the parent and the child - hopefully they match in needs and expectations.

[Colleger]

And what if school didn't exist. What would the parents who can't bear having their kids around all day do?

[seeker]

Oh, I'm sure you'd find room for them, Colleger.

[exoticfruits]

They would simply get together and form their own schools. Those who liked working with DCs would look after or educate the children and the rest would be free to work.

[exoticfruits]

I don't want to be responsible for the education of my own, I am too close to them and it would also be difficult to give them what they need most- benign neglect. However I would be very happy to have a group but 15 -18 is a good number to bounce ideas off each other and get a joy of learning. I would only want them up to 12 years- luckily there would be those who like the older age groups.
I can't see why you have to have DCs and want to be with them all the time. You can be an excellent parent without- I wouldn't want boarding school but it is actually possible to send them and be an excellent parent!

[colditz]

In just over 100 years we have stopped systematically beating them too, nobody seems to remember that.

[exoticfruits]

I very much believe in 'it takes a village to raise a child'. I cringe when I hear 'I am devoted to my DC' - it is a huge burden for a child. I mean the sort of parent who hasn't been out for 5 years because they won't use a babysitter! Other people can manage for a few hours- it is healthy to stay with grandparents for a few days, go on a cub camp etc.
A parent needs to have a life, hobbies, friends, a job etc and delegate sometimes.

[nulgirl]

Not sure why you are bothered that other people have a different point of view to you. It's great that you love being with your kids all day. Other people don't feel the same.

I work full time and positively skip away from nursery/ school drop off some mornings. It's not because I don't love my children - I just find it pretty hard-going being with them all the time. If I just had my dd then I think I could probably do it (if I had to) but my ds is very hard work - an adorable pain in the ass.

[Bunbaker]

"As for messing up their education, well that will be down to them and not me"

try telling that to the parents at DD's school - their maths GCSE results were down on last year and the parents felt it was the school's fault

"I'm confused that you think that HE'ers have their kids around 24/7."

Doesn't that depend on how old the children are, how much support you get and how many other local home educators there are? I have a friend who home educated her children for a couple of years. When she was pregnant with her 4th child she had SPD and needed physio. She had to drag the three other children with her to physio because she didn't have anyone to look after them. (I didn't live near enough to help her out)

I take my hat off to anyone that home educates. It isn't for me and not for DD either. She is an only child and doesn't like her own company for too long. We don't have family nearby and the only after school activity she does where she mixes with others is Guides. Also, I have neither the skill, the knowledge or inclination to teach, nor do I carry the same authority over DD that a teacher at school does.

I love my daughter to bits and really enjoy the school holidays, but I find it a bit of a struggle when she says "I'm bored I want someone to play with" - usually on a Sunday afternoon when everyone else is doing family stuff.

She needs school, she needs to stretched more than I can stretch her. She needs to see other children on a daily basis to interact with. We don't have a science lab or other specialised facilities she has at school.

That's why home education isn't for us and why I admire anyone who can do it successfully.

[exoticfruits]

It is fine if it suits you to have them around all the time- it just isn't 'superior' and you don't need to feel sad. I can't think of anyone that I want to be with all the time. I was the same as a DC - I liked variety and space.

[crackcrackcrak]

This is one of those do what you like but don't judge subjects I reckon.
He is certainly not superior IMO. There are positives and negatives about SE and HE who are pretty evenly balanced I think.
I don't want to/have no desire to HE and neither would I even if we were millionaires. I hold my school years very dear to me and hope my dd's enjoy it as much as I did.
There are tons of great reasons to HE but I have reservations about it as an extension of attachment parenting. Judgey maybe yes but I am a bit about that motivation.

[merlottits]

mummytime I've checked with the thread police and they said it was OK I posted here even if I had a slightly differing view to mummytime.

I think HE is fantastic I was merely suggesting that some children are more 'difficult' than others or maybe the personalities would clash with the parents and this would put parents off HE.

I was merely defending the parents who appear to not want to spend lots of time with their children, not insulting HE.

[exoticfruits]

I think that crackcrackcrak has it in a nutshell- it is what I hate about parenting - a parent hits on a method that suits them and justifies it by saying that it is best and they pity anyone who doesn't feel the same or do the same. It is a basic insecurity. It is great if you choose a method or philosophy that suits you and makes you happy but it doesn't apply to everyone- one size doesn't fit all.

[mummytime]

I don't HE, and I wasn't trying to police you. I just thought if you were as negative about HE as you seemed then why bother posting here.

Nope not everyone does HE or would want to. Hopefully most people who have kids want to spend sometime with their kids. Equally hopefully most people who have kids have sometime away from them. I tend to think the realities of HE will probably lead to a bit more bengin neglect that some parents who SE manage.

[seeker]

It is actually possible to know a lot about HE and not be entirely positive about it, you know. But it seems to me that HE ers are one of the
mumsnet protected groups. Only completely positive posts
allowed. While HE ers have complete freedom to be as negative as they like about school and school educated children.