"Radical autonomous learning" Can someone talk me through it?

[organiccarrotcake]

Phrase pinched from another HE thread which I think means what I'm trying to understand. I read in a blog that a mum was reading a book about elephants, and she (to her shame) asked her daughter, "what else begins the 'E'?".

What's wrong with this?

Saracen,

I think it would be quite cruel to expect any child to achieve a good A level in a modern foreign language, say French or German, or in maths in less than three or four years starting from absolute scratch, and even then what purpose would such hideous cramming serve? But that wasn't at all the point of my post, which was to ask when, if ever, autonomous home education may need to give way to something more structured.

LastSummer - to answer that question about when structured learning is important...

If one of my children decides they want to pursue music, then they'll need instrumental lessons, and probably the structured environment of orchestras or choirs, or saturday music centre, or maybe (if they are interested and talented) summer residential courses, or being a cathedral chorister, or specialist music school, or junior department of one of the conservatoires. If they decide that they want to go on post-18 to university or conservatoire, they'll be needing whatever A levels they need for that place, so if they weren't already at a cathedral or music school, they'll either need to do those A'levels based at home, or they'll need to go to a sixth form college or to school for sixth form.

But they are the one with the vocation, yk? This is their path. If their path involves formal conventional-looking learning at some point, I'll support them in that. The big difference between that and children who go to school whether they want to or not, willy-nilly, is about motivation (intrinsic for an autonomously educated child) and choice (escape hatch clearly signalled).

Intensive study isn't cruel or hideous cramming to someone who wants to immerse herself in it because she's fascinated by the subject (as I was by calculus), or who is in a hurry to master the material to achieve some other end of their own (as my husband was with trigonometry). If they aren't fascinated or in a particular hurry, they can take their time. There's no deadline for starting university.

I think perhaps you are considering "structured" as the opposite of autonomous. It isn't. Autonomous means that the learner is in charge of deciding what, when, and how to learn. That can include structured learning, as with my dd who chose to work through a maths workbook in order to ensure she wouldn't be all at sea when she started school.

So the answer to your question of when structured learning should begin is, as ommward says, whenever the learner wants to do it. Because they don't have to be finished with formal education at sixteen or eighteen, they don't need to begin at any specified age. For some children the answer to when they should begin structured learning may be "never".

rots i haven't joined but mean to. Oops! Have signed up to alwaysunschooled yahoo group and find that interesting (though have a massive stash in my inbox to read when i get chance... ). There's a monthly home ed group in leeds for up to age eightish that a friend has been to and says is really good. Maybe you could pop along to that over the summer and see if it suits?