Friend of mine is home schooling for her 4 year old in September...

[Lotkinsgonecurly]

And all of my friends dd's peers my dd included) will be going to the local small village school. The main problem is that my friend is basing her objection to school on the fact that she was a teacher in the late 1980's and I along with other people have suggested that things have changed in the last 20 years.

However, I really want to be supportive to my friend and have just mentioned when asked why I am happy sending my dd to the local ( good but not outstanding) school.

Friends dd is an only child and I am overly concerned for the child's lack of socialisation with other children of a similar age.

I know its completely her choice etc but the dd has been at playgroup and the mother has loved time away from the daughter to do her own thing in the mornings. I think she'll have a bit of a shock to be honest when she starts home schooling her in September. The local school have offered to do flexi schooling if she wishes Monday - Thursday mornings which are the same days as the playgroup were.

I must just add I'm an only child and was home schooled for a couple of years during primary years and found it so isolating as I was rarely mixing with other children. When I did start school after months of me constantly asking my mother to I found it really difficult transition period.

Lol @ barbiegrows. Why don't you try HE, and then if the socialising doesn't work out, send your kids to school?

Lotkin's friend can do whatever is best for her family - she doesn't need to prove that she's tried the mainstream first.

So what if school does suit her DD? The choice to HE is not always a negative, reactive one. I'm sure my kids would do fine in school, but we have chosen HE because of the freedom, choice and time together, and opportunities that we wouldn't have if they were in school. There's not just one way to live.

I expected this response from you guys.

I've got nothing against home education, I am just replying to the poster as someone who had a bad experience of home education herself and suggesting that she suggest to her friend that she gives school a try.

Sorry Careyhunt but there is no way you can compare organised playdates and camps with seeing 20 or 30 of the same children for 36 weeks of the year, five days a week, working together, playing together and learning together - yes, falling out with each other, picking on each other sometimes, but learning essentially in a good nurturing environment from people with years of training and experience, who are well paid and are supervised by stringent regulations. Not forgetting child protection training, disability training and support for children with additional needs. Why people turn their back on this never ceases to amaze me. Especially when you're already paying for it though taxes!

Yes, there are those with bad experiences, but the very vast majority come through well educated and particularly if they are given support at home. Most children are home educated for the first 5 years of their life anyway so you can't say parents aren't giving it a chance.

'disability training and support for children with additional needs' is sadly lacking and the reason why many parents (of children with SEN) HE

My dd has SEN and I know I would be the worst person to educate her. The system is far from perfect but it's getting much better. The SEN Discrimination Act is now in place to ensure children get equal access.

But parents take their SEN dcs out of school for many many reasons, often because they are educated seperately (when they have a learning support assistant at their side this often ends up happening - teachers leave dc to the assistants but that's now against the SENDA. Often they are bullied, often they have sensory issues and can't cope with the busy atmosphere. You're kind of half home educating them anyway - parent partnership is the technical term for it. Yes, it's hard work and I can understand why many parents take the SEN dcs out of school.

But OP's dc doesn't have SEN so that's not really an issue on this post.

It's interesting that in another thread that's brought up home education that having a bad experience at school was considered a 'bad reason' to HE, but here an individual having a bad experience in HE is used as good enough experience to get involved with another family. Thankfully, the OP has more sense and we have a lot of experienced and diverse HE parents on here.

I have to laugh every time someone goes on about the 'years of training' for teaching - my BIL became a teacher with a drama degree and a one year conversion course. He spends more time on the 're-training' every year when the government decide to change things than his original training. He won't gain 'years of experience' until he's been there a while and gone through quite a few classrooms and more and more of it will be made useless by continuing policy change.

Also, I'm quite happy to pay tax for things I don't or can't use so that others that need them can have them, even schools (particularly as I know quite a few parents with children with severe SEN use it for the respite they can't get from the council). People bypass parks, museums, libraries, leisure centres, and other things paid for by taxes because they think they can get something better elsewhere (private healthcare, anyone?). Why should schools be any different?

I agree NJK. Also, isn't a lot of the training about how to control and teach a class of 30? Not in the subject per se. I was always astonished at how many classes I was taught in which the teacher was just one page ahead in the textbook.

barbiegrows ime (school educated and work in schools, in classrooms with kids and staff in an involved way but not warped by a teachers perspective)...you have a seriouly rose tinted view of schools.

absolutly notatschool. The vast majority of the school day is spent herding and settling grievences ime.

Just wanted to add, that wasn't a dig at teachers (except mine of course, I'm looking at you Mr H - my brother, sil and best friend are all fab at what they do), just that many of the great skills teachers have are not relevant or needed when you're only teaching a couple of kids.

Plus, I don't think people do send their children to school for those reasons, rose tinted or no. They go because that's just what you do. Parents might HE for the first 5 years, but do they know that they can carry on after that if they want to? And even if they have heard of HE, would they have the confidence that it would be something they could do, rather than thinking you have to be a teacher/supermum/unbelievably patient/know everything or whatever?

You might think school is the best thing since sliced bread, but people are not making a positive choice until they know that they have one, if that makes sense.

barbiegrows: I stand by what I said above. There is nothing to be lost by trying mainstream education.

With the same principle, there is nothing lost by trying home ed!:) Its great to tell pple give mainstream schools a try but when one wants to try a different avenue then we have to stick to the norm? I am happy that you love school but you have to understand that I am happy homeschooling and my children are happy being homeschooled. Why is that so difficult to comprehend? This is a Home Ed board, pple are on here because they homeschool, they want to support each other or because others are considering it and thus want more info. I don't go to the School forums and try to convert them to homeschool, its the individual and their families choice, no one else has a right to tell them what to do!

barbiegrows: Sorry Careyhunt but there is no way you can compare organised playdates and camps with seeing 20 or 30 of the same children for 36 weeks of the year, five days a week, working together, playing together and learning together - yes, falling out with each other, picking on each other sometimes, but learning essentially in a good nurturing environment from people with years of training and experience, who are well paid and are supervised by stringent regulations. Not forgetting child protection training, disability training and support for children with additional needs. Why people turn their back on this never ceases to amaze me. Especially when you're already paying for it though taxes!

How do you know our houses aren't a good nurturing environment? I am assuming you are a teacher and work fulltime in schools? I am a qualified teacher, with years of training and experience and NO the pay isn't great, isn't that one of the reasons why us teachers are always on strike? So many schools and many many parents trusted me with their children throughout the years but my credibilty is under scrutiny becasue i want to teach my own children at home? Just because i reluctantly pay my taxes doesn't mean the resources available is gold!

barbiegrows; My children are definitely in the most 'nurturing environment' that anyone could provide for them, and I have years of experience! Mr Hunt actually works in a school, so I would strongly dispute 'well paid'! That said, our decision to home-ed was a positive choice for home education, we believe very strongly in it, rather than a negative move away from school. I don't feel the need to 'give school a try' so that I can be pleasantly surprised that my children do alright in that environment, anymore than the vast majority of parents who use school feel inclined to 'give home-ed a try' so they can see that home educated children do, in fact, have a social life! I believe that home education is the best option for my family, I'm not anti-school, but I am very pro home-ed!
My family are extremely active members of our local home-ed group and my children are part of a close knit group of friends who see each other regularily every week of the year. We holiday together, we share meals, we have sleepovers, the children share experiences and help each other to grow. I feel enormously proud of, and grateful for, the friendship group my children are part of. I am regularily moved to tears watching my teenage son and his friends read stories with the younger children in the group, or teaching my disabled son to kayak, or preparing a meal together for their parents, or singing and playing instruments together. All these things have developed organically, as a direct result of a culture of acceptance and support which I don't believe would have come about in a school environment. When I see the way these home-ed children have grown into mature, happy, responsible young people I am so glad we made the decision to 'turn our backs' on school.

"the very vast majority come through well educated."

Have to disagree with that one. Only 51% of children meet the governments (very low) standard of 5 GCSE A-C when leaving school.

And on the radio this morning: now it's 67% of children leaving Primary school able to read and write to a good standard, up from 64% last year. Whoo.

No, they got those stats wrong (the person collating them had failed their maths GCSE ).

"Most children are home educated for the first 5 years of their life anyway"

Yes, and it's going so well that we've decided to carry on for a bit longer I don't understand why we should go through all the rigmarole of registering for school, buying uniform etc etc when HE is already working well for us. Why do we need to 'try it'?

how rude: I expected this response from "you guys"

Actually I do not HE if that is what it is supposed to mean and I disagree entirely with everything you have posted on the thread

What, EVERYTHING?

barbie - "suggest to her friend that she gives school a try" - do you honestly think that the OPs friend hasn't thought of that possibility herself? That she doesn't know schools are there as an option?

If the OP says that to her friend, her friend will sadly sigh and think "another person who isn't going to support me in this choice". She won't turn round and say "Wow, so you think I should doubt my own decision and do exactly the same as you do? Thanks, I was obviously wrong to think I could make a complex choice for myself without your intervention."

OP - feel free to tell your friend that you were HEd, and the reasons you were unhappy with it. And say you hope she manages to find an HE group that suits her and her DD. And that you hope your DDs will have plenty of chances to spend time together outside of school times. Being friends doesn't mean you can't mention any concerns that you have. But if you want to be supportive to her, then please try to do it in a way which doesn't sound like you don't trust her ability to think about these things for herself. I'm sure she will have thought about the social side as well as the academic side of HE - the chances of you being the first person to mention "socialisation" to her is practically zero, it's the first thing that comes up in most conversations about it.

I am quoting Barbie something or other and everything she says. Yes

The intolerance of an alternative opinion on this thread is quite astonishing.

But as I said, I kind of expected it.

you are so rude in your manner of posting about HE that although I don't HE myself, I find you entirely out of order and you don't present your alternative opinion in a manner that encourages anyone to want to listen further IMO

barbie If your opinion was "school can be fine" I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

But what you seem to be saying is "Tell your friend she should try school first", on the basis that, sometimes, HE doesn't turn out to be the best answer. And people are countering with "No, support her choice to try HE first", because sometimes school doesn't turn out to be the best answer.

If it was the OP who was trying to decide between HE and school, then "school can be fine" is a fair piece of advice. But the OP wants to know how much she should shove her oar into her friend's choice. And the only correct answer is "Yes show an interest but don't tell her what she should do based on your own choices/experience"

barbiegrows:The intolerance of an alternative opinion on this thread is quite astonishing.

I'm confused, how are we intolerant? We have clearly stated we are not against school and many have stated their teaching backgrounds. We are the ones following the alternative method, therefore you are the intolerant one? We are all having a discussion here, just because we don't follow your ideology doesn't mean we are wrong!

"seeing 20 or 30 of the same children for 36 weeks of the year, five days a week, working together, playing together and learning together"

That's actually my idea of Hell right there. Not a "good nurturing environment" at all.

That's not to say my children will have the same experiences. I have no problems sending my children to school at a later date IF that's what is best for them, but at 4 years old and given our current local schools? No thank you, we'll stay at home.