Why weren't Victorian upper class women fat?

[waltzingparrot]

They sat around drinking tea, playing the piano, embroidering, reading. Just the odd amble round a park, occasional dance.

How did they stay slim with their tiny waists?

@godmum56, there's no way that photo you posted was taken in the 1860s. I'd put it at 1905. The women are definitely wearing Edwardian fashion.

All of the above, but also their microbiomes had not been nuked by antibacterial everything and pesticides. Can contribute to obesity I've read

Also, all the 'hysteria' doing the rounds, perhaps that kept the weight off

They could also retouch photos by repainting the negative to make people's skin appear perfect and make things such as waists even smaller. If a woman had lots of skirts, bust and hip padding, good angles, tight laced and had the photo retouched she could appear incredibly tiny

@Prospering

I noticed that dessert shops are becoming more frequent in my city - I do like a wee dessert, but going out just for a massively huge and calorific dessert seems a bit much.

Dessert places were a massive growth area in the city I used to work in, and my sense was that they were mostly patronised by young people from ethnic backgrounds for whom avoiding alcohol with a norm, and for whom going to a pub to socialise, even to have a soft drink, would have been a cultural no-no. So those dessert restaurants were kind of fulfilling the brief of the pub as a casual place where you could socialise with your friends without being around alcohol.

Agree the desserts look off-puttingly over-the-top, though.

Probably fewer calories in a dessert than four glasses of wine or five pints so better overall. I also thought the dessert places were something to do with 'dry' Muslim areas.

Self-control - sadly lacking these days.

Corsets
Smaller portions
Colder houses
Less sitting about than you think

@Blossomtoes

I agree, snacks and processed food have always been around

Snacks have not always been around. I grew up in the 50s, nobody had snacks. They certainly weren’t around ten years before that when rations barely covered meals, let alone anything in between.

They were still a bit taboo in the 80s. You were told not to snack so as not to spoil your appetite. When chocolate bars were first advertised there was an emphasis on not spoiling appetite e.g. 'A finger of Fudge is just enough'. From this we've gone to a situation where some people even think snacking is compulsory. I know someone trying to lose weight and her dietitian has told her she must snack!

I guess big portions weren’t ladylike either.

@WaltzingBetty

Corsetry definitely made a difference - Lillie Langtry looks almost deformed in this picture

I can see that she'd be attractive by Victorian standards

I don't have any expertise to know if the photo is retouched or not. But I don't think she looks deformed. Her bust and her hips look much larger than her waist, and they make it look very tiny. However, her skirt is very full and ruffled, and so is her bust. She has her hands up so that her shoulders look very wide, but if her hands were by her sides, I think we'd see that her waist is not ridiculously narrower than her shoulders. Her face is tilted down and sideways, so we can't quite see how wide her neck is (we're actually looking at her profile, which will be wider), and the string between her hands gives the impression of width.

It looks as if her waist is tiny: narrower than her neck. But is it, or is that just tricks of perspective and posture?

Lillie Langtry would have been 7 in 1860.

That dress is late Victorian with the bustle which was the precursor to the Edwardian S bend corset.

I’d go for 1880’s

In their elocution lessons women were taught to speak by opening/moving their mouths as little as possible.

I can only imagine what the equivalent was for eating! Rabbit nibbles...! Also drinking wine by literally just wetting your lips with it.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Lillie Langtry would have been 7 in 1860.

That dress is late Victorian with the bustle which was the precursor to the Edwardian S bend corset.

I’d go for 1880’s

Sorry, it's the photo posted on the first page.

There were plenty of fat Victorian women, but not many obese. Corsets and large hoops under skirts gave the illusion of a small waist although many wealthy young women tight-laced and contorted their ribs and organs. The beauty ideal was a pretty maiden, pale and frail from TB/consumption (wasting disease).

Ooooh let me have a look!

Sarahandquack, the reason I am fairly confident it’s retouched is that if you look at the area around her waist, the bits that would have to have been removed to thin her waist are very conveniently completely black.
The article on retouching linked above talked about how part of the skill was to pose the subject in such a way that this would be possible.
If it was real the stonework behind her would probably be slightly visible rather than totally black, which suggests to me that they have deliberately posed her with her waist in front of the shadowed corner of the stonework so they can paint out a bit of her waist on each side.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

Victorian MN food diary:

Breakfast: three kidneys cooked in butter
Lunch: half a turtle with a massive salad
Dinner: Not sure yet. Bought a peacock to roast, but DH forgot to put it in the pantry and it's really warm where we are. Should I risk it?

Spent 20 mins shouting at servants and fitbit thought I'd walked 2 miles.

too funny! x

That photo looks early Edwardian to me. Leg o mutton sleeves reappeared in the 1890’s, but the puffy hair and filmy bodice on the model looks Edwardian.

The house of Worth still exists now. I don’t think he needs to be alive for it to continue running.

@mathanxiety

I've seen photos of some of my female Victorian forbears, and they were definitely what could charitably be called 'zaftig'. I have no reason to believe they were the exception among my ancestors. They were well off and clearly could afford a good deal of food.

I was sure you'd used a German word there and was wondering why we'd be expected to understand, but a quick Google tells me it's American English from Yiddish. Interesting.

@WaltzingBetty

Corsetry definitely made a difference - Lillie Langtry looks almost deformed in this picture

I can see that she'd be attractive by Victorian standards

that photo has been retouched

They didn’t have Uber eats.

@GoingGently

Also, all the 'hysteria' doing the rounds, perhaps that kept the weight off

How? I can only think of Mrs Bennett who took to her bed for her nerves. That wouldn't have made her thinner.

@Hertsgirl10

They didn’t have Uber eats.

I've never used Uber eats and have put weight on over lockdown. On the other hand, I eat lots of processed foods and ready meals and that in itself doesn't make me fat - only when I eat too much of it. I suppose I might be healthier if I had a live-in cook, if I was the mistress of the house and could influence the menu, but would I have the freedom to go to the kitchen and ask for a snack when I fancy one?

‘, but would I have the freedom to go to the kitchen and ask for a snack when I fancy one?‘

You would but your servants would judge you.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Sarahandquack, the reason I am fairly confident it’s retouched is that if you look at the area around her waist, the bits that would have to have been removed to thin her waist are very conveniently completely black. The article on retouching linked above talked about how part of the skill was to pose the subject in such a way that this would be possible. If it was real the stonework behind her would probably be slightly visible rather than totally black, which suggests to me that they have deliberately posed her with her waist in front of the shadowed corner of the stonework so they can paint out a bit of her waist on each side.

I'm sure you're right! I just meant to be clear that I can't comment on that bit, but I can see the visual tricks that the photographer is using too.

It's relying on those subconscious calculations we make - we think her waist is tiny as her neck seems wider and her bust/shoulders and hips much, much wider. But we cannot actually see any of those measurements, we just think we can. We can't even see her wrists. Its very clear at disguising proportions. But if you look at how tiny her elbows look, you can get a sense of what her actual body shape might be. Tiny waist - not that tiny.